I am. From TBC through to Cata.
I second their opinion: Mythics are now a toxic cesspool.
4 Likes
Just released M+, Delves and Raid season at the same time.
Have heroic dungeons/world content/LFR/last season’s gear be the gear stepping stone to enter all of the above.
Delve keys should not drop before the season starts and I’d even consider removing the rare map drop but add in higher difficulties with greater rewards.
But see, it’s different if someone has been there and doesn’t like the impact of m+ on raid.
As for toxic buzzword: doesn’t apply.
Ion really has absolutely no clue what he is doing.
Delves at t8 give our generic Champion track gear with a horrible pool to get from, which makes the measly crest acquisition from delves a slog. Unless you are getting a lot of crests, you are basically getting maxed out Vet gear.
Better loot? Ohh, you mean the garbage trinkets that dominate the chests, or the other items don’t have the secondary stats you need, so you stick with the Vet gear you already have. LOL better.
1 Like
Delve trinkets aren’t bad.
It should either be all in or open season for loot.
System A (How it should be IMO) - Progression should follow this flow. WQ-Dungeon=Delve1-5 - Heroic Dungeon=Delve 6-8 Mythic Dungeons=Delve 9 - Normal Raid - Heroic Raid.
Adjust difficulties accordingly. All raiding should give better gear then any other form of progress, this is a clean funnel from solo to group to raid. Anything below normal raid should be preparing you for raid or giving cosmetics after a certain point. Reduce the pathing bloat and make even normal dungeons relevant again.
Or keep the current system, make Delves 100 percent solo only (or drop 1 piece of loot period) and make T9 plus incredibly hard but allow for glyph drops/Ilvl progression.
Mythic plus is an outlier gearwise, always has been, and shouldn’t give raid quality gear. If it does, then other gear paths like Delves are fine.
Ohh, you again…
Why should the game funnel everyone into raid? Didn’t we learn the lesson that this is a bad idea back in WoD?
Having multiple endgame pillars is better for the game than funneling people into a single one. Especially since raid hasn’t been the peak of endgame progression since Blizzard removed the max keystone level in M+. Outside of merely personal preference, there is no logically consistent argument for why raid should be the sole source of the best gear.
Mythic plus is an outlier on quantity, but not quality. For most specs, the best items come from raid each season. The reason why M+ gearing creates issues is because good gear can be infinitely farmed (with RNG serving as a practical limit for most players). But great gear only comes from vault and mythic raid.
The problem with delve gear isn’t that it gives raid quality gear. It’s that it gives raid quality gear with heroic dungeon level difficulty. I agree fixing the problem shouldn’t be nerfing delve gear, but right now the general notion of difficulty being proportional to reward isn’t met for delves.
Raiders can make the same argument for mythic+ getting 5 people together is much easier then larger groups both for coordination and logistics.
And Delve itemization is TRASH, Ilvl aint everything. Outside of a few novelties like the buddy candle most of the trinkets are D-Tier
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The coordination is easier, 100%. But no mythic raid fight has ever been mathematically impossible to defeat with perfect gear and execution. Keys do reach that point every season. That’s not where rewards stop, and I’ve said for years Blizzard should move the top M+ rewards up. But no matter what difficulty kicker you apply to the effort of coordinating raid, that still will not be as difficult as the point key becomes impossible.
Early in a season, item level can be more important than secondary stats.
But even beyond that, the itemization quality is spec dependent. There are a lot of crit/mastery leather items, which are my best stats. And the ritual knife trinket is one of my BIS trinkets at a competitive item level; the only reason it’s so low on tier lists is because it caps out at 626 if I can get a heroic version from vault, not because it’s a poor trinket for me.
The point im getting at is either go back to real progression, or allow each pillar to flourish independently. If that means Delves needs to get insanely difficult then make it so. While were at it get rid of PVP gear as well, stupid system that shouldn’t exist.
+1 to this!! 
Thanks.
5 Likes
Ions never been solo friendly.
The funniest part in this discussion is that it’s only the pug M+ community of lowers keys crying about allowing delve players get gear. The high end pro players really don’t care. The gatekeepers aren’t really top players.
7 Likes
WOD didn’t have content. Funneling people into raid is the correct play.
Unless they make T11 give myth track rewards, then all that would do is kick the can down the road.
At any rate, the way this snippet of the interview (and other statements made) sound like they’re going to changes to M+ and the lower keys ranges, not adjust delves. They’re on record saying they are happy with delves and the progression curve. They seem to be not happy about M+.
This.
Which makes my point stronger. When Blizzard designed an expansion around sitting in your garrison and raiding, sub counts fell off a cliff. Funneling people into raid again when there is significantly more to do seems like an even worse idea.
I’ve said this before: Wasn’t the whole point of integrating raiderio score into the base UI supposed to address this? Why is a +7 lead inviting someone with 0 io???
When I played bfa, I could get heroic raid geared through the rng of warfronts. Which means I could have jumped straight into +10’s at the time. But did I do that? No. Why? 1. Because I’m not stupid and 2. Because I knew since I had 0 io score, I wouldn’t get invited anyway.
I have no idea where this thought process of Ion’s is coming from or why it’s now suddenly an issue when it wasn’t before. Is Ion suggesting that less people are being discriminating for m+ invites despite the fact that raiderio is now integrated into the base game compared to when it wasn’t during bfa???
Something about this whole situation doesn’t make any sense.
6 Likes