Oh, it sounded like Ion was describing M+ design as a wall. Figure people would consider the wall as the problem
3 Likes
No one enjoys M+. People only do it for the gear/crests.
24 Likes
Why unsub when you could still do the other content you were doing:
it.
2 Likes
?
Because unsubbing from a video game isn’t the end of the world.
6 Likes
Ritual Knife and Quickwick are bis trinkets for a lot of specs, unless you do content that drops mythic track gear.
8 Likes
Of course it’s not, but when you’re telling people to just do it because they enjoy it and saying you’ll unsub if what you enjoy doing isn’t as rewarding it seems pretty hypocritical.
3 Likes
Aye, it’s not that I don’t see a point in doing anything less than a +7, I don’t get invited at all. So I don’t WANT to do M+ at all.
Delves is the only way I can reasonably keep myself geared for raiding if I had the time for it, but I learned back in BFA that I want nothing to do with M+, the dungeon rotations this expansion keep exacerbating that.
6 Likes
Because I don’t complete delves and then move onto Mythic+.
I do delves because I find them enjoyable and then stop.
Whether I find something rewarding is based on how enjoyable I find it.
35 Likes
And the delves would still be there even if they nerf the rewards.
If your enjoyment is predicated upon how much you enjoy the content itself rather than specifically how rewarding it is, why then would a change in the reward structure, rendering it less rewarding than early m+, lead to your unsubbing?
2 Likes
Mythic Plus should just be taken outside of the game into it’s own mode. Like Plunderstorm. Make your character, pick your gear and see how far it can get in the season. Throw in leaderboards and cosmetic rewards for it and leave the rest of the world out of it lol.
50 Likes
There are a lot of ways they could address the wall going from delve 8 to further progression in other pillars. Reducing delve rewards is just one possibility.
I’m confused why people have immediately jumped on “nerfing delve rewards” as the likely and possibly only solution.
2 Likes
Because after my 500th delve, I begin craving something different.
We seriously need to abandone this notion that if you aren’t willing to do something over a 1000 times, then it must be a failure. Not even raiders are gonna beat queen over 100 times, so it’s strange that delvers get treated like we hate something despite probably doing ever delve more than 50 times, and usually that’s not even at a higher level.
Why don’t we make mythic+ stop at 8 and then say it’s a failure if people don’t do +8 over and over for six months straight. That’s your logic.
23 Likes
Because it’s what blizzard (Or specifically Ion) always does. Fun detected, fun nerfed.
Can’t let the try-hards and streamers feel like they aren’t special, gotta make everyone suffer equally.
47 Likes
It’s not a matter of that, it’s a matter of if you enjoy doing the content then it’s always there for your to do.
The thing that would drive you to unsub – rendering early m+ a superior gearing option to delves/whatever else you do – shows that you hold an appreciable value for the reward structure and gear, certainly more than you let on, otherwise it wouldn’t affect you thus.
Hence the reward structure does matter, and saying, “Just do it because you enjoy it,” is hypocritical because you yourself wouldn’t so do.
And the reward structure matters to me as well, specifically for m+ and that I want to return to s3/4 of DF’s structure. They could leave delves as is for all I care and it wouldn’t affect me.
4 Likes
Won’t be shocked if Ion and Co nerf Delve rewards into oblivion. Can’t have the poor raiders and dungeoneer Mythic+ try-hards feel like they are forced to do content they don’t want to and this is just them finding an excuse to do it without saying that’s the reason.
49 Likes
No, you are totally missing the point.
I would do delves to experience them and then stop.
Just like the higher tier delve tier levels I did once.
If they released a new delve that I was outgeared for, I would still do it once just to experience it.
For me the connection with mythi+ is basically non-existent. Frankly, it would have been way faster and easier to gear up via Mythic+ alongside delves because they can be spammed, but I never did because I don’t care for Mythic+.
Also, let’s get real here. The reason people are jumping into a +7 is because they have reached the delve end-point. They got to 619 and want to finish upgrading their gear, so many jumped into Mythic+, while many others frankly just started an alt or quit. If you let these same people get gilded crests from like a tier 11, you probably wouldn’t even see them ever touch mythic+.
Ultimately, there’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the issue here and making delves stop at a lower level isn’t the solution they may think it is.
17 Likes
I think delves have been amazing and they are a good stepping off point to get into other forms of content if you so choose. Maybe not from a mechanic standpoint but the item level will help.
The idea of making delves scale that much harder to become that much sweatier is basically the idea of making the mage tower for all classes on multiple tiers.
There is a time and place. People just need to calm down for now as they implement things.
I think they are doing a decent job of not letting one form of content cannibalize another. If anything, mythic plus dungeon just need to be smoothed out difficulty wise.
7 Likes
It isn’t hypocritical because it is a different situation. People can get the same rewards from m+ as they get from delves but people are choosing delves despite claiming to enjoy m+.
Because m+ is an unfixable mess, the only way to get people to do low keys instead of delves will be to nerf delves into the ground. In order to force m+ people to actually do m+, my options would be removed.
If that occurs there is no point staying subbed. People need goals to work towards. If the best delves can give me is maxed veteran gear, I’ll accomplish it in a week or two then stop playing.
7 Likes
I’d be fine with them having better rewards at higher delve levels if the challenge reflects the reward.
I feel like only TWW and maybe DF season 1 came reasonably close enough between keys and raids.
You mean you would do them to the full or nearly full extent of their reward track and stop.
Otherwise, were it truly just the experience alone that mattered, you’d not have reached 616 ilvl without m+ or clearing more than 6/8 normal raid a single time.
It’s really not.
You tell people to do something because they enjoy it, and yourself stop doing something because it no longer offers rewards.
You tell people to do something you yourself don’t even do, extol a virtue that’s ultimately false.
Hence hypocrisy.
2 Likes