Did you even try reading your own post and thinking that there might be a reason for the way I responded? Maybe if you took a second look at what I said you could have answered your own “questions”. I said that classic WoW without flying mounts is an enjoyable experience. And then you respond to my comment with
NO. I wasn’t trying to pass off my statement of my opinion as facts. PLEASE don’t brush this off and move on to criticizing my posts and pretend you did nothing wrong. What kind of antagonistic response is it to tell me I’m trying to “pass something off” as “fact” when I was literally stating my opinion and never suggested otherwise. Don’t try to rapidly retort with some defense and “proving” me wrong. Just practice some self awareness and admit fault. There was zero reason to get off on the wrong foot like this.
This is your own emotional and completely biased interpretation of what’s going on. Nothing close to what you just said has ever happened. Stop trying to pretend to be some arbiter of logic and reason when you’re just cherry picking my comments because you dislike my ideas.
I like how emotionally invested you are, right off the bat, in “defeating” me. Go be confrontational somewhere else. I’m tired of this.
What you meant to say was “Apples to oranges comparison” or false equivalency. Which my comment was neither. It was an example of the lack of awareness and foresight of the general forums and people who claim that “you’re the only one who wants this.” It wasn’t a comparison or suggesting that two ideas are somehow related. Stop attacking my comments and just talk about the subject. And stop trying to “defeat” me like I’m some sort of villain.
I guess you missed the general point of the comment. You say there is a “silent majority” that would rather play Wrath without flying. You claim to have support numbering in the hundreds if not thousands, yet your thread has exactly 6 likes as of this comment. It’s been up for almost a month. Time to pack it in.
If by “multiple” you mean 6, then sure. I’ll give you that, but that’s not a hundred, or a thousand, that’s 6. It barely qualifies as “a few”. As for support, who? I’ve seen maybe 3 comments that were “it might be okay, but probably not”.
Don’t think I’m that person. Every comment seems to be “IC, SP, Raids, Wrath was designed with flying in mind, ‘you’re off your rocker’, ‘stop necroing your dead thread’.”
You’re still missing the point; you’ve claimed that people who support your idea are too busy playing a game they hate to come to the forums and support you. You have claimed that you’ve spoken to “hundreds” of people who support the idea of Wrath without flying. You stick to this claim like it’s gospel. It is not. It is hear-say, at best. At worst, it’s you making it up. It’s called arguing dishonestly.
Actually, quite good at it, I’d posit. You didn’t contradict this, you just omitted the fact that you couldn’t actually enter the raid. What’s that old line about lying by omission, oh right, it’s still lying.
Yes, do you? How many flight paths do you think they’d need to add to make your idea work? How many hills, and new paths would they have to add? How about teleporters? You realize that they are releasing Wrath in Sept, and launched TBC (both old versions of code they already have) and had to Alpha/Beta and adjust coding… you think it’s easy, like the SC2 editor, “just add it, forehead”… but it has never, and will never be that simple.
You know exactly 0 about how this game is coded. Did you know that the reason our initial bag size is 16 slots and has never changed? Because it’s so meshed into the rest of the game’s coding that if they were to change but a simple number, it would actually break the rest of the game… Sad right? But true.
“I was being sarcastic… wait, that proves your point? No I wasn’t!!”
That I didn’t take your words out of context? Actually requires 0 thought. If you think it’s out of context, then maybe you should say what you mean instead of trying to sound smart; hint: makes you look kinda slow.
I explained; you can’t get from the FP at Ulduar, into the raid of Ulduar, without a flying mount. That’s basic. You sure you can read?
Exactly what I was pointing out; so you care to respond as an adult this time? Or?
No no, you see, that’s merely objective observation. I understand how you could confuse the two though…
OR… and I’m just spit balling here; you could use your flying mount to go over them. Weird right? Like it was kind of designed to be that way.
Wrong? I simply said enjoyment is subjective. A completely true statement. And here you go deflecting and attacking me personally instead of providing a logical debate. Because you don’t actually have a logical response.
And by your replies after this you don’t disappoint. Bravo.
It’s quite telling how you accuse me of being emotionally invested when you’re the one using emotional facts in a logical debate (I’m paraphrasing your own words there). And yes, no one likes having holes poked in their ideas, it’s no wonder you’re tired of this.
Yes. I provided an example of this just for those who may not be familiar with the term. And yes, saying that some people claimed that Classic wouldn’t work and were proved wrong while insinuating that just as then people are now wrong about no flying is absolutely what your comment implied.
How about you start actually discussing your ideas now instead of using ad hominem attacks? It’s almost like you know how unsound your reasoning is at this point and are actively avoiding it.
Your original idea of a separate server wasn’t a bad one. It’s how you’ve responded to criticism and opposing ideas that has gotten progressively worse.
It is. Hell, they almost crashed retail servers renaming a single NPC.
This is the best you could come up with? This? Really. Okay, if people of the Classic Era really love WPvP SOOOOOOOOOO much that it should be encouraged, then why is there such a HUGE (and I’m really underselling how big) disparity in Ally v Horde on ANY realm? Servers are either Horde only, or Ally only. Where is this WPvP you speak of? Almost like anybody who did enjoy it, made people who didn’t enjoy it transfer off or delete characters… Weird, right?
Prove it, or stop saying it. I’m only going to tell you this once.
“I want to force people into WPvP… IDC what we lose in the process!”
How many… quantify. You’ve been extremely obtuse about the whole subject; some responses are ‘however many’, some are ‘add paths and hills and caves’, others are ‘it’s only 1 or 2 flight paths’… it’s almost like you’ve put 0 thought into it, and just want what you want.
Honestly, I wouldn’t… though entertaining, I’d hate to see somebody else waste anymore time on this foolishness, and I’ve wasted plenty for all of us.
Ahhhh, now “temporary flying mounts” are an option… The list of fixes required grows…
This. In a nutshell, the OP is just a selfish, self centered child. They want a thing, and don’t care who gets shafted in the end, as long as they get what they want. Only child syndrome I suppose.
There’s more; but yes, that kind of defeats the purpose of Icecrown being a zone ‘at war’, if the ships are just docked as quest hubs. You really just don’t grasp what Wrath was all about, do you?
LOL. Hit the nail with the hammer on the head. Actually, off topic, but I never realized how many people in my Sunwell guild had never done Heroic MgT until it popped up as the daily… No purpose for running the content? People won’t do it… Weird.
They don’t. That’s the point. Literally just necro’s their own thread to get told “no” a bunch more… the illusion is that people are talking about it, like Blizzard can’t read the overwhelming and resounding “no” that came of it.
No matter how many times you tell this user this, they just don’t understand it.
LMAO. It’s getting kind of old though…
So OPINION then, not facts?‘’
“a bit?” Exaggeration on this level almost commits to lying.
Just wanna point out that your suggested fixes include “Ease of access and teleporters”… funny argument is funny.
I don’t think you quite grasp that it wasn’t forum whining; it was the literal mass exodus of accounts. Cancelled subs, etc. No-flying contributed to this. They tried to remedy their losses by adding it. Doesn’t take a degree is rockets to do the math. Oh, and what happened to “forums aren’t a representation of blah blah”… Seems it fits the ‘title’ of evidence when you need it to…
Nah, sure… millions of people quit your game because you implemented X… X is a good idea. /sarcasm… <— in case you missed it, it means that I mean the opposite, ironically.
This includes you. Thanks for coming out.
Explains a lot.
Hilarious you said this.
Wrath beta… TBC beta… Classic alpha and beta… Please… go on… If it’s just old code, and it’s just that easy, Wrath should be available by the flip of a switch, right?
The 16 slot Backpack is so tied into the code, the game would literally become dysfunctional if they changed it. Tell me you don’t know code without telling me you don’t know code.
Again, you can say “a thousand people want this” when your OP has 1000 likes… until then, you’re at 6. Shut it.
This one loves to strawman. It’s because they can’t take the overwhelming negative response to something they thought would be beloved.
What part of the forums is not an example of statistical data do you not understand?
What part of the forums is not an example of statistical data do you not understand? The forums… isn’t evidence of ANYTHING. Except that out of the General Forums which 90% of the people who use the General Forums, IF NOT MORE are retail players who are very attached to their rare flying mounts that they spent months farming, do not want their flying mounts taken away. In fact, this thread, isn’t even evidence of that, because it only applies to an even smaller demographic: people in the general forums who read my OP. It literally means nothing and you trying to make conclusions from it as if it’s a formal poll of hundreds of thousands of people who play WoW, is completely illogical. Inb4 you say “Hurr durr you dun know what logic is”
I’ve never denied this. I didn’t pretend that my anecdotal evidence is somehow statistical evidence, like you are trying to do.
LMAO!
What part of… there is a flight path there, that allowed me to get there, without a flying mount, do you not understand? The IMPLICATIONS OF THIS, is that it is POSSIBLE and VERY EASY for Blizzard to let you get there without a flying mount… by, gee, idk, GIVING YOU THE FLIGHT PATH WITHOUT YOU GETTING THERE FIRST
About 2 or 3 per zone for Storm Peaks and Ice Crown, And about 1 or none for the rest of the zones in Wrath.
You can claim that all you want but you have no evidence or any real expertise for me to consider your claim as something worth taking seriously.
Completely irrelevant. This doesn’t somehow prove that adding new flight paths, something that they do every single new expansion is somehow an extremely difficult and time consuming thing to do. You just want it to be to support your shaky argument.
The lack of critical thinking skills required to believe that someone being sarcastic means that you can use that as “evidence” to “prove” that they MUST support the opposite of what you think was said, is truly staggering. That is not how things work. Only a child would think that sarcasm is somehow a black and white 0 and 1s switch that either one or the other is true. Truly infantile reasoning.
Yeah, and the part where you, in all your wisdom, are actually so “smart” that you think that everyone you argue with are so stupid that you thought I actually didn’t understand your grade-school level assertion, that CURRENTLY, AS THE GAME IS, you can’t get there without a flying mount. Though clearly, I understood that from the very second you typed it, and then pointed out that I got there without my flying mount, BECAUSE IT CAN BE DONE.
Brushes it off, pretends you did nothing wrong, precedes to continue to act hostile and confrontational Okay buddy. I am going to start treating you the way you treat me then.
Because it’s not a debate. It’s a discussion. That wasn’t even close to me making an argument. That was me telling you to stop being antagonistic. But you of course refused. Anyone with triple digit IQ, would be able to quickly ascertain that I was not participating in your infantile “debate” But now I am because you refuse to stop being confrontational and childish.
LMAO, yeah sure. Too bad you’ve demonstrated, two times now that you clearly don’t know what is and isn’t a false equivalency. Ignoring your numerous other logical fallacies. My comment was not a comparison. It was not attempting to equate no-flying to classic. It was an example. Go ahead and Google the definition of a false equivalency, and compare that to the definition of the word “example”. While you’re doing that how about you go take a formal logic or debate class.
On my realm. Grobbulus, one of the most populated realms in Classic BC. And people being childish and low-skilled and choosing to go to realms where they can be on the majority, and/or dead realms, does not somehow indicate a dislike for World PvP. Disliking fair world pvp does not imply that they do not like World PvP at all, all it indicates is that they want to win, not lose world PvP. Nice try.
No. And idc what you do.
Strawman fallacy
Try taking a look in the mirror. I’ve been to these zones and proven, at least to myself, that it would be very easy to make them ground-mount friendly. You, however, refuse to do so and bring ANY sort of credibility to your words. You just go off of your biased memories and reinterpret your memories to support how you want things to be.
LMAO. Please stop pretending you’re some cool dude who everyone likes and that you are the mature one. Every single post you make proves that you’re just as, if not more, petty and immature as I am. However, the big difference is that you’re clearly much younger than me and much less logical. And you think that showboating wins arguments.
Yeah, literally already many quests that give you temporary flying mounts, or put you on a temporary flight path to do things. Already in BC do we have these things. And there is nothing in Wrath that would require you to use a flying mount that isn’t put on a predetermined path. And even if it did? So what. It would still be a perfectly reasonable fix.
“Yay! Everyone who disagrees with OP is my friend! Let’s get him guys! Let’s beat that stupid OP! I love being on the side of the majority!”
It really doesn’t. It’s called imagination or suspending your disbelief. Like when you suspended your disbelief that goblins and orcs who have very little grasp of even industrial era technology could somehow make a flying ship that clearly requires modern technology and modern metallurgy. Please don’t debate this tangent, it’s just an example.
“Yay! Everyone who disagrees with OP is my friend! Let’s get him guys!”
More taking things out of context to suit your needs. I am truly arguing with some zoomer in Jr. High aren’t I?
So then what exactly was the cause of WoD’s failure? Remember, you can’t cite forum whiners anymore. They are not a representation of ANYTHING. Troll is troll.
I’m not the one who posted my Classic thread in the Retail section of the forums because I’m an attention seeking, petulant child. That’d be you.
So there isn’t “thousands of players that support no flying” which would be your anecdotal evidence, correct? So why do you still say it with such… confidence?
You’re actually so simple, it’s kind of sad now. You didn’t make it into the raid without your flying mount. Just admit it. So you have to add yet another flight path to Storm Peaks just for the raid alone. A flight path next to a flight path, no less.
So as exampled by the fact that they’d have to change multiple quests, quest hubs, and ultimately add 2-3 FPs for IC and SP, and fundamentally change a few other aspects, and give us a loaner flying mount in other cases, exactly how many resources do you think Blizzard would be willing to put into your little idea versus the “simplistic” nature of your request? Odds are you don’t even know how much work you’re actually asking them to do, so I’m curious.
Also applies to everything you’ve said too there, champ. Nice try though. Sadly, I pay attention though, and I know enough to get me by. Unfortunately for you, you don’t have a leg to stand on, as you’ve kind of already proven your knowledge in the field.
“Make monumental changes to the game for a single server for me!” - said the person who doesn’t know how coding works, or what they are actually asking for.
Nah, you right, that’s why expansions take years to produce. Blizzard could put them out once every 3 months, but they extend it to 2 years because they’re greedy… /sarcasm
Oh, and those are created, while the zone is being created as well; so it’s not altering code as much as it is writing it.
LOL. Not the one sitting on a shaky argument, kiddo. That’s still you.
No, what it does, is points to you’re willingness to sacrifice logical thought to try and “one up” someone as though you’re intelligent. News flash; nope, we triple checked though.
I know you’re going to mention something about a mirror later; have you tried it? All you do is resort to the cheapest of tricks in any conversation that proves you otherwise. It’s hilarious. You are a walking meme. “Don’t be so emotional”… “I dunno why you mad bruh”.
This is an oxymoron. Welcome to it. “I realize you can’t do it, but I said I did it, because it can be done.” You mean it can be done if they change the game and add a FP to the entrance of the raid so you don’t need a flying mount to get up there… but you still won’t say the words, no no, you have to prance around it like a child because admitting you were wrong is absolutely not how you debate, right? Also, why you so emotional, chief?
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Splitting hairs? I mean, you can discuss while you debate, and debate while you discuss, really not sure what the point is here, aside from avoiding yet another point against you.
Wait, I thought this wasn’t a debate… Oh geez, you’re literally just all over the place.
LOL, I’ve been on Grob, and you’re like 95/5? REAL WPvP there guys. Sheesh.
Ahhh, there it is, was waiting for the “git gud”… one more and I get a bingo, just saying… Actually it does, faction imbalance is a large problem, but it’s felt even more so on PvP realms than it is on PvE ones.
That would imply there is fair WPvP somewhere, but also, if you don’t like fair WPvP and just want to stomp on the minority, you’d go to a realm that’s mostly (if not all) one faction correct? Weird there seems to be a reason there’s such disparity in faction balance across all realms… WEIRD.
Your whole argument? I agree. LOL.
There’s the mirror comment… Have you tried it lately? Everything you accuse others of, you’re guilty of. I mean, it amounts to “rubber and glue”, but it’s so sad it’s this ture, in this case.
My words have plenty of credibility. I can prove what I’m saying is true. You can’t. You can’t even get more than 6 of the thousands of supporters of your idea to like this thread. You misrepresent the facts to suit your narrative. You omit the truth to serve your purpose. You’re blind.
I’ll just stop being me then I guess, since it offends you so…
Actually, it’s called “stooping to your level to prove you’re talking out your behind”. Very much so though, I’d contend that you’d lost any sort of sway you had when you began attacking anyone who disagrees with you as “stoopid and childish”.
Must be, you said, it’s gotta be true. /sarcasm. LMAO. Keep 'em coming kid.
Ummmm, which ones, specifically… I can think of 2 quests in TBC that give you a flight around an area. Which isn’t the same as what you’re talking about because again, it would be rewriting code.
So if I picked up the quest, got the loaner mount and just never did the quest, I’d have a flying mount. Right, perfect fix.
Now I can’t agree with others either? Others aren’t allowed to agree with me? Seems like you’re the censor type. Geez Karen, didn’t you accuse me of that like a week ago?
Sure, but, I mean, if the ship is always docked, then how does it feel like the Horde and Alliance are at war with the Scourge? My disbelief is already suspended, but the airships make the zone feel a bit like the zone is in conflict, as opposed to a fixed point on the map. That has nothing to do with whatever you’re inferring, just saying.
Censorship. I’ll get the black tape.
LMAO. So, youenjoying Azeroth in TBC because no flying. That’s not your opinion… That’s a fact? Do you even know what that word means? I think you need to google “Fact” “opinion” “logic” and “padding for walls”.
Tell you what though; You can have everything you want; added flight paths, no flying in Wrath, in fact, we’ll remove it from TBC too. Across all servers. Okay? But we’ll only do all of that, if we remove PvP servers entirely. We just convert all realms to RPPvE realms. Still want it?
I can’t cite “evidence” for people’s opinions on what was a bad expansion. What a poorly thought-out question.
Yes you are. Thank you for admitting it.
The General Forums is not the “retail” section of the forums.
There is. There’s just no evidence for it. And you have no evidence that there isn’t. So you can’t disprove my claim. So the statement stands. Whether you accept it or not is up to you.
I literally and irrefutably did. Do you actually not understand the point I’m making? And even if it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to get there without a flying mount… which it isn’t. What are you gaining by pointing this out? Really think about this before you fly off with your churlish responses.
No they wouldn’t. They would have to change very little and they would have to make zero changes to the terrain, as you previously claimed.
That’s the point. You really don’t know how to argue with people do you?
Was this your attempt to verify your expertise on the subject? Hilarious. The point is that you can’t back up any of your claims so you have zero arguments to say why my idea is bad. The fact that I don’t have evidence for my alleged support for my ideas, is equally irrelevant. Get the picture already.
They’re not monumental. They’re minimal. Microscopic, even. And I have coding experience. Not that that matters.
Gee, maybe that’s because they’re designing entire zones from scratch, making new raids, composing music, designing quests, building new talent trees. Are you trying to imply that FLIGHT PATHS are the reason it takes them long to make new expansions? If not then you have no argument.
It’s funny how you just keep building on your mistake and going forward as if you don’t understand what you did wrong. Oh wait, you don’t do you?
Idk what you’re on about. Nothing I said was “mad” or “emotional”
Stop using that word. You clearly don’t know what it means. Try saying “this is contradictory” or “this doesn’t follow logically”. Use some adult terms.
Stop responding to my responses to other people. You already quote me like 50x every time you post and I’m trying to cut it down but you just keep adding more.
Now you’re just blatantly lying. Which is a great example why everything you can say is based on nothing but your biases and cognitive bias. It’s one of the most balanced realms there is and according to Ironforge population statistics which is based on raid participation, Grob is as close to 50/50 as it gets.
Try reading the comment you quoted, again, but slowly. And this time respond to it in a way that actually shows you read what I said.
LMAO. Go ahead. I’ll wait.
Yeah, sure. We can pretend that’s what’s happening.
Then it’s those 2. An obvious mechanic that can easily fix a very simple problem that you yes-flying-ers insist is an insurmountable obstacle.
I didn’t say you can’t do anything. I’m just pointing out how immature and petty you are.
There seems to be a lot of words you don’t understand.
Lol. Okay then. Go ahead and link to those surveys that prove that people “quit” over not being able to fly in a game where they have full and easy access to flying mounts. This’ll be rich.
Seriously, I could hit the character cap laughing for how much this made me laugh. Alrighty then; lemme just brush up on your logic and, yep, here we go;
“There is no support for no-flying realms, and all realms should get flying at the beginning of every expansion. There are millions of supporters of this idea.” <— I made this claim, it must be true. The statement stands. I don’t have to prove it, I said it.
How can you claim to be logically superior only to fall victim on the first and most important step of logical debate/conversation? I do not have to disprove your claim, you have to prove it. Although, I covered this earlier, princess. Sad you didn’t realize what was happening.
L. I. A. R. It’s okay, you’re pretty much a mess anyway, I’ll forgive you.
What do I gain? What if I told you it isn’t about what I gain, but it’s about what you gain? A clear conscience. Making an honest argument. That the changes you’ve tried to sell as minor and almost insignificant would be larger than you’re describing. Honesty is integral.
See above. Also, you claimed they could add “paths and caves” which is terrain. Yet another dishonest argument. Should I have expected less?
Clearly. LMAO.
No, it was a statement. I know enough about the code to get by; you on the other hand have proven you don’t have knowledge of what you’re talking about.
So, just to clarify; I can’t back up my claims so that must mean they are irrelevant (even though I have, but okay), but you can’t back up your claims, so I have to accept them? Seriously, did you hit your head at an early age, or is there like a mom’s my sister type thing happening here?
I’m not the one proposing an idea. I’m telling you your proposed idea is bad. As is everyone else. With sound reasoning and logic behind us. While you continue to rant and rave about how everyone else is being illogical. Do you get the picture already?
Removing flying from a game that was designed with flying in mind is monumental. Whether you agree or not. Also “coding experience” isn’t 10th grade science class where they let you design a basic website.
The fact that you understand this is shocking. Honestly.
What you are essentially asking for is a rewritten version of Wrath. The example I gave you, about the Backpack, is relevant, because changing something that seems so simple, can have disastrous and unforeseen consequences; and that’s a Backpack.
Just because you can’t understand it, doesn’t make it any less true.
It’s funny how you still don’t understand what actually happened
Oh, settle down now, think of your blood pressure.
When you contradict yourself in the same sentence? That’s an oxymoron. I don’t think you understand it, but sure…
More censorship. Go on then, keep trying to silence me… LMAO
Oxymoron “EVERYBODY WHO PLAYS WOW RAIDS!” who’s bias were we talking about again?
I did, but ummmm, problem is, you still have that “git gud” in there. So… BINGO!?
Scroll up, and read. Already have
I mean, all I’m doing is feeding the troll… I’m cool with it though, I don’t have anywhere else to be…
As is “don’t buy a flying mount forehead”… but here you are…
Yup, that’s what you’re doing… LOL
I’d give you a dictionary, but unfortunately those are readily available online; if you choose not to put in a little effort, why should I?
The problem is you’re illiterate and don’t realize it while I am extremely literate and have a very firm grasp on vocabulary. But you’re too uneducated to figure that and will just say “haha you said no you” so ofc I can’t force you to realize that you’re wrong so it’s pointless.
When you try to use big words to say “no u” while accusing someone of saying “no u”.
Keep the meme’s rolling, kid.
Honestly, it’s sad, weeks have gone by, you have yet to make a valid point, just give it up. Pack it in. Take the L. Enjoy life. You’re only young once.
Didn’t you say something last week about “how can anyone be wrong in a debate about opinions?” Meme, LMAO.
Stop repeating yourself you bad troll. And none of those words I used were “big” That’s how I normally type. You’re just not used to bigger than monosyllabic words apparently
Should I though… I mean, how many times did you say you have a ton of support for your idea? I think I can say what I want, thanks
No no, they are “big words” to say ‘no u’… Neanderthal. Before you get it twisted; it means you have a thick skull, so dense that basic ideas are hard to process, so you go ‘oooo fire’. I just want you to know your limitations.
LMAO! The only cool thing you did in this entire sentence was call me a Neanderthal and then ruined it by explaining the insult. Now stop derailing my thread
They are not a representation of ANYTHING. Troll is troll.
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