I want Cata, but I also hope they keep all the WotLK realms up.
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Sure. It was. Every game reaches itâs peak.
And yet, a decade later, game still going strong.
If Wrath is so great, we arenât we at 12 million today?
Wrath was popular. Had a lot of hype around it. People jumped on board quite late. They played for a months and stopped.
Happens with every single game. Doesnât take much of a brain power to put 2 and 2 together.
If they kill Classic by not releasing Cata, and thus throw everyoneâs prog away, game will die. Sure, there will still beâŚ100k? 200kâŚmaybe even 300k players. But the remaining 2+ mil will leave.
Yall really over estimate how many people can just âdeleteâ their characters.
Era/HC will never beat Cataclysm in players count.
Look at Baldurs Gate 3. It was MASSIVE with hype. Look it at now. From nearly a million of active users down to 150k.
https://steamcharts.com/app/1086940#6m
Look at FF14. From nearly 4 million around its hype, down to less than 1 million today.
https://mmo-population.com/r/ffxiv
Iâd call your logic dumb, but there isnât any. Youâre using some made up load of BS spewed around by retail haters. Era is still there. No one is taking it away from you. So donât take anything else from others. If you donât like it, just donât play it.
Thatâs one way to actually distinguish a legit player feedback vs a made up one.
Actual Cata players, whether OG Cata or pCata, would know that Cata plays closer to Wrath than Wrath to TBC.
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It wonât. Cata Era will be DOA same as Classic Era was. And the outcry for Era was MASSIVE. And yet no one played. I think there were only 2 guilds world wide that stayed on Era with TBCC arrival.
Era was also dead during the entire TBCC.
Era was also dead at Wrath launch.
Era only picked up towards end of Naxx due to sheer boredom.
Then HC hype happened towards the end of Ulduar.
Now, HC is nearly dead. There has been a massive exodus with ICC release.
HC/Era have always been like a side chick. Nothing more.
Itâs dumb. No one goes around saying "oh my how much do I love running through barrens 7 timesâŚor how much they love zone hopping 8 times per level.
I also miss Torghast. It was fun getting all the powers feeling OP. But the reality of the situation is, it sucked. And every week we all hated it. Hence the name, âChoregastâ.
No one in the right mind will go back to Naxx10/25 raiding next year.
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My memory is actually excellent. Cata is the start of restrictive game design where the Devs wanted full control instead of allowing player agency. It was play their way instead of ours. This is the start of Retail and why Cata was the first expansion to start losing Subs.
Cata is NOT a Classic Era game and never will be. They destroyed so much in Cata.
I didnât compare Cata to DF. Each of the expansions after Wrath were bad in different ways from a design standpoint. Cata was when Retail started and in MoP it went full tilt and wasnât WoW anymore.
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What did they destroy in Cata?
Iâve asked a similar question on here before and the answer I got was the world and talents. These are debatable though as the changes to the world were pretty cool in a lot of ways, and the changes to the talents basically just involved removing boring talents that gave basic damage increases and built those into the classes.
Maybe you can add to these?
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So you know how we ALL follow cookie cutter builds now, right?
And how every single spec utilizes level 60 talent.
So, in Cata, you still will and want to pick up max level talent, but now, you just have to do it before anything else.
WHAT A CRIMMME OH NOOOOOOOOOO AAAAAAAAAAAA
IM FORCED TO DO WHAT IM ALREADY SUPPOSED TO DO UNACCEPTABLE
TYRAAAAANYYYYYYYYYY
or orâŚthey also like to say how you hjave to farm reps to get enchantsâŚsame as in Wrath and TBC. Or how you have to do reps to unlock cool profession recipesâŚsame as in Wrath and TBC/
or or how we have to do Tol Borad besides main raid⌠same as we do VoA in Wrath.
or how you have to do dungeons to get Valor/JusticeâŚsame as daily dungeon in Wrath and TBC. Except for itâs better in Cata as itâs not a daily cap, itâs weeky. So you can play 1 day a week and still cap out on Valor.
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I mean the world and talents is a massive part of the game. If there are 2 things you need to get right for an MMO it better be the World in World of Warcraft and the Talents since itâs an RPG.
Both of which they got terribly wrong.
It really didnât. Again the design philosophy changed greatly.
They removed so much in Cata and forced you to play their way. Which is bad in an RPG/MMO. The talent trees were restrictive and forced you into a specialization. They removed stats and ways to build your character. They forced you into armor types. Etc⌠etcâŚ
Destroying what made the game and WoW what it was I guess is a bold move that didnât work out for them. Hard pass on experiencing it again.
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Sorry this is wrong and terrible design. It wasnât like this in the original game and player agency existed and many ways to play and build your character. The Devs should design a game and get out of the players way. The players are supposed to show the Devs how the game should be played. That is if they are good Devs.
No we donât.
Nope
Sorry but you shouldnât have to max out a talent tree to put points in the next. You also shouldnât have to max out a talent tree. Which is why Wrath is better and allows some great hybrid builds.
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So what changes to the talents involved more then removing boring talents? Serious question because Iâm not sure, I really think for the most part it was just boring talents that were removed. Sure talents were changed and new stuff added, so maybe you just didnât like the new talents, but what about their design philosophy changed greatly?
Also as far as the world, personally I think it needed a change. We went through the original game and 2 expansions in that old world, so that wouldâve been what 6 or 7 years? Yeah it needed a change. It probably needs a change in retail. This is just my opinion though, Iâm not trying to present this as fact.
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What hybrid builds do people play though?
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Go ahead and link me some prog raid members who use non cookie cutter builds and gear.
Find me a rogue who is using spell power.
Find me a warlock using Armor pen.
Find me a warrior using spell penetration.
Find me a hunter using cloth armor.
There is ONLY one âviableâ build in the game that doesnât utilize level 60 talent - itâs Demo/Destro lock. A very very very very rarely used build for some very very very very niche min maxing situations.
The only reason we may even have some really really really odd unique builds is due to the POOR base design of the game. Why do Death Knights need SPELL HIT if they are a melee class.
Tank gear has 3 stats on them. Could be def, dodge, parry, block. +they need expertise +they need Hit. +they need block chance. +they need block value.
As for the RPG element of the game, Cataclysm the actual ROLE PLAYER part to the whole new level with dozens of new iconic class fantasy abilities and transmog to dress up your character they way you see them and not liek a complete clown with 12 different colors.
Additionally, with Reforging, youâre given the FREEDOM to distribute your gear stats they way you see fit and now in pre-determined way by devs in the way they designed gear.
None of your points make sense. And youâve been proven wrong on every single one of them.
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I donât think I have to keep repeating myself. Iâm not into wasting my time. These forums crack me up with the trolling.
Plenty. Preg is really popular. Revenge spec Tank where you are Deep arms. Sorry but the talent tree in Cata is trash. If you like it coolzies. Hard pass on it. They removed player choice and ways to build your character from gearing and talent design standpoint.
Instead of releasing a mediocre expansion that is Cata that most people donât like. They should focus their efforts on Classic + which is the future of WoW.
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you only listed 2. Thatâs not plenty.
And no, preg is not âpopularâ. In fact, itâs very very unpopular.
UA build is also used exclusively for dungeons and leveling. This is not a viable raid build.
And yet again, proven wrong on every point.
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Iâm really not though. If you choose to ignore the facts that is on you. Just gonna ignore the trolls here. You guys gotta find more to do. Cata was the start of Retail and restrictive game design. It removed player agency. Itâs a bad expansion and isnât part of Classic Era.
It just isnât. If they move forward with Cata and try to make it Classic itâs a giant mistake that will cause more harm then good. They destroyed a lot in Cata and there is no reason to relive that history again. Most of us donât want to experience that. We will gladly play Wrath forever or Classic Era forever until the new Classic + expansion comes out. Good day.
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Facts? What facts?
- Everyone is using cookie cutter builds.
- There are no actual raid-viable hybrid specs.
- Everyone is using 60 level talent point.
- We already have bloated amount of stats everyone needs to min/max.
- Reforging brings more flexibility to gearing.
- Cataclysm brings more RPG elements to the game.
- 90% of skills/toolkit remains the same in Cataclysm.
- Pretty much every single talent point is actually meaningful in Cataclysm.
- Old world content is revived.
- Wrath brought MORE changes from TBC to Wrath, than from Wrath to Cataclysm.
Did I miss anything else?
All youâve said is a bunch of 
. And Iâve quote you on every single point you made to show how silly all your takes are. You clearly have zero knowledge of cataclysm.
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Cata is closer to Wrath than Wrath is to TBC. Nice try though.
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Na. They are going to remove Wrath and release Cata. Then we are all going to have to unsub and play on private Wrath servers just to get our game that we wanted back. Cata is coming. Cata is what ruined WoW in the first place and then it continued on into MOP and has never recovered since.
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wrath is the cata waiting room. #nomorewrath #cataonly #nowrathera
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Iâll take a blanket statement with no examples for 500, Alex.
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its no secret cata is coming. keep pushin for wrath era
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