No, you’re both wrong essentially. Their assessment of 517dps increase was correct. 15% of 4500. So 4500 + 517 during uptime. So everytime you proc you are essentially adding 517 x 5 seconds = 2585 damage.
So if the fight lasted 2 minutes and you had 20% uptime, that’s 24 seconds of 517dps(assuming the previous example 4500 caster dps). That’s 517 x 24 = 12,408 damage. That’s what you would have to offset in the example to make another weapon worth it. Totally worth using Nightfall.
Our enhance shammy volunteered to use one so we let him. It’s not up a whole lot, maybe 20% of the time.
Are you geared for it? Its not just the axe, you need full haste enchants/libs HoJ and Maelstrom Deck…
Got all that?
Yep, and in a 2 minute fight with that 20% uptime, that averages to 103.4 dps.
It’s really not hard for hunters to deal more dps than that from shooting a bow compared to swinging nightfall (even counting the dps they put out from hitting with nightfall, which I havent seen above 170 or so)
The classes that dont lose as much damage don’t get 20% uptime either.
It’s definitely not worth it for a hunter right now.
I can’t imagine why you’d have a hunter use this ever. Warrior or shaman for horde, warrior or pally for alliance.
People were convinced hunter would be better due to wing clip spam being the highest uptime.
They also ignored that personal dps is just as/more important as you’d need crazy high uptime to justify that much of a drop for a hunter.
they were right tbh. what would ret and enhance be without this meme spec weapon that other classes can use too?
hunters did well with it on certain private servers, looks like its working differently here
Yep, rets do better with it on classic as our personal dps is a lot higher than hunters, so their marginally better uptime doesn’t matter.
I feel bad for the hunters that burned 10 arcanite on them based on private server performance
Assuming my math is correct,
Your math is incorrect. Nightfall gives a 15% increase, not a 115% increase.
450* 1.15 = 517 dps.
This should be: 450 * 0.15 = 67.5 dps
Ah yes… I used the wrong numbers there.
Haste does not improve the # procs as proc rates are based on weapon speed. The faster your weapon speed the lower the proc rate, and that includes talents like flurry. The only way to maximize procs is to maximize instants. e.g. warrior spamming hamstring with a HoJ and Windfury.
all I gotta do is spam frostbolt and be part of the top dps lol
I have a maxed shaman and druid, made this guy to farm. But on the looks of it it seems your enhance, so I guess you feel like youre “useful” since you use it huh? 
You’re both saying the same thing.
450 + 67.5 = 517.5
Yeah, mages aren’t part of the top dps unless your guild has no warriors and rogues. The proc from nightfall is a static 15% increase to your damage though, so I’m not sure why you wouldn’t care about it? Lol
that’s why it says it makes meme specs feel like they belong somewhere, theyre just a support for the classes that acutally do dmg
It does increase the # of procs because proc rates are based on BASE weapon speed in classic, not hasted.
It does not lower the chance per hit, but increases attacks per time, leading to additional procs.
dude, just go fire.
and there’s no such thing as memes. We have words in the dictionary to describe every thing under the sun and to encompass everything with this stupid non word is an insult to words.
It’s not like fire spec is buffed after the next patch.
You’re both saying the same thing.
No, he was saying that 517.5 dps was added to the raid - not accounting for the fact that 450 of that dps would exist regardless of Nightfall. I was pointing out that the marginal value of the Nightfall proc was only 67.5 dps.
Probably a better way to consider it would be to start from the 4500 caster dps and just observe how the Nightfall proc affects this.
If you’ve got a 10% uptime on a 15% debuff, that would be the equivalent of a 100% uptime on a 1.5% debuff.
1.5% of our 4500 total would be the 67.5 dps I pointed out. That is the added value of the Nightfall proc.
So if the loss in personal dps for the Warrior/Hunter/whomever is greater than 67.5 dps (which, for a Warrior or Hunter it almost certainly would be), then Nightfall is not justified (with these very hand-wavey numbers).
You can use the same process, plug in the actual numbers from your raid and figure it out for your own guild. It’s close enough that I can’t definitively say that Nightfall will always be a bad idea. However, it usually will be.
The one exception to this would be the situation where you have an extremely low dps member of your raid who nonetheless is competent enough to stay alive and shows up for every raid. This mythical creature would be the ideal player to wield Nightfall.