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03/19/2018 12:11 PMPosted by JefraNot surprised to see this brought up by Theloras. But ya if your alliance just have your tanks who aren't tanking anything just use Nightfall. Anything else is just a waste.
kinda hard to do on Patchwerk or other fights with multiple adds/spawns when your tanks are actually tanking :P
but thanks for stopping by!
How well does this data hold up if instead of 60-seconds encounters, we have 5-10 minutes encounters?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
1 Like
I kind of admire your dedication to a sub optimal spec. You really do put a lot of effort into trying to convince the world that you aren't a waste of a spot. People like and the Prot Paladin who quit over not getting styleens made for quality entertainment at least.
03/19/2018 12:50 PMPosted by ElfabulousHow well does this data hold up if instead of 60-seconds encounters, we have 5-10 minutes encounters?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
Private realms are fun and all, but their tuning is very broken lending to the encounters being too short. Armor is not calculated correctly or at all.. Glancing blows, misses, resists, and such are not calculated correctly either.
Also please don't forget that as content progresses there are more options for loot in game that make it easier as a result. Gear from AB, WSG, AV, Dire Maul, ZG, AQ20. All these were originally less difficult than MC, and yet they're in game making MC easier as a result of their superior gear.
Dungeon loot was buffed in 1.3 when Diremaul came out so that diremaul loot didn't feel so crazy powerful. They also went so far as to remove a lot of the trash mobs in the original high level instances. This was in effect nerfing the original dungeon cap with out cutting the cap directly.
In 1.10 they simply trimmed the cap down to 5 man to retain the difficulty level that was intended after 1.3.
Overall its safe to say that the private servers are just fun servers like the developers of them have said before. While doing some testing on them to experiment with things is fun, its not representative of the original game at any point, or Classic in the near future.
03/19/2018 12:53 PMPosted by JefraI kind of admire your dedication to a sub optimal spec. You really do put a lot of effort into trying to convince the world that you aren't a waste of a spot. People like and the Prot Paladin who quit over not getting styleens made for quality entertainment at least.
I’d like to see the rogue you are putting in that spot save the tank with a well-placed Lay on Hands.
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I’d like to see the rogue you are putting in that spot save the tank with a well-placed Lay on Hands.[/quote]
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks?
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks?
03/19/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Elfabulous03/19/2018 12:53 PMPosted by JefraI kind of admire your dedication to a sub optimal spec. You really do put a lot of effort into trying to convince the world that you aren't a waste of a spot. People like and the Prot Paladin who quit over not getting styleens made for quality entertainment at least.
I’d like to see the rogue you are putting in that spot save the tank with a well-placed Lay on Hands.
this is actually spot fcuking on...
last week on Loatheb we got him to 3% and our MT's health dipped down to under 400 HP but all of our healers were still locked out of their heals due to the 1minute healing silence that's part of the fight encounter...
"LAY ON HANDS ON YOU!!!" - Theoloras
While swinging Nightfall and using 8/8 Tier 1 to heal the MT and 3 Warlocks in my group:
1
Kinsman (73407) 260.1/s (49901) 176.8/s
22.2%
2
Theoloras (52328) 185.4/s (19266) 68.3/s
12.9%
3
Ganker (24734) 87.6/s (2064) 7.3/s
4.8%
4
Auroro (20803) 73.7/s (2084) 7.4/s
4.1%
5
Razil (19562) 69.3/s (924) 3.3/s
3.7%
6
Glarean (18967) 67.2/s (233) 0.8/s
3.5%
7
Lurue (16281) 57.7/s (5031) 17.8/s
3.8%
8
Elfiehughes (16033) 56.8/s (3049) 10.8/s
3.4%
9
Brigadoon (15589) 55.2/s (9869) 35/s
4.6%
10
Jabronis (14625) 51.8/s (2602) 9.2/s
3.1%
11
Darkstone (13668) 48.4/s (2031) 7.2/s
2.8%
12
Smiter (7972) 28.2/s (2089) 7.4/s
1.8%
https://legacyplayers.com/Raids/Viewer/Default.aspx?id=9053&exp=0
1
Healing Circle (43462) 154/s (18260) 64.7/s
86.2%
2
Lay on Hands (6115) 21.7/s (1006) 3.6/s
9.9%
3
First Aid (HoT) (1500) 5.3/s (0) 0/s
2.1%
4
Whipper Root Tuber (1251) 4.4/s (0) 0/s
1.7%
03/19/2018 01:12 PMPosted by JefraI’d like to see the rogue you are putting in that spot save the tank with a well-placed Lay on Hands.
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks up?[/quote]
^^^ see above ^^^
03/19/2018 01:15 PMPosted by Theloras03/19/2018 01:12 PMPosted by JefraI’d like to see the rogue you are putting in that spot save the tank with a well-placed Lay on Hands.
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks up?
^^^ see above ^^^[/quote]
Sounds like you need better healers or a better rotation. Once again not the rogues fault.
Theloras keeping the hybrid dream alive! Balance Druid forever!
03/19/2018 01:18 PMPosted by Jefra<span class="truncated">...</span>
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks up?
^^^ see above ^^^
Sounds like you need better healers or a better rotation. Once again not the rogues fault.[/quote]
Can Rogues keep their topped off with heals using their 8/8 Tier 1 set bonus on Loatheb or any other fight that has major AoE dmg?
Likewise, can a Rogue use Nightfall?
1 Like
OP, please answer my question. I am honestly curious about that.
03/19/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Jefra
Why would the rogue have to do that when we have healers that keep up our tanks?
Different classes bring different tools. Lay on hands is incredibly powerful because it's a massive heal with the absolute possibility to prevent a wipe.
Some times bad things happen. Healers in Vanilla excluding druids with NS cannot pop an instant massive heal. You must also remember that global cooldown is something that's really huge in Vanilla / Classic. This is one of the advantages that any paladin can bring. Also consider that paladin also bring aura's like shaman resistance totems that allow the raid to use less resitance gear, in turn higher raid DPS.
Because Aura's and Totems are only group wide, you need 1 paladin or shaman per group to gain those buffs, and because of that more shaman's and paladin is better. However do you want every single paladin and shaman to be a healer? No, because loot is finite, and that would mean every shaman and paladin would be going for T1 and T2 / 3 instead of feeding the DPS builds the numerous offeset items that drop.
Does a DPS hybrid need to bring optimal DPS on par with a rogue? No.
Does a DPS hybrid need to bring healing on par with a healer like a priest? No.
What does a DPS hybrid need to do? Contribute to the role he has chosen and do that role to the best of his ability while keeping his eye on the raid to execute the real reason he's there in the first place. That real reason is hybrid utility; its why they are included in the raid.
Better players make that hybrid role truly a force to be reckoned with, while poor quality players generate meme's like "LOL RET".
1 Like
03/19/2018 01:23 PMPosted by ElfabulousOP, please answer my question. I am honestly curious about that.
sorry, what was your question again?
got lost in track at having to school Jefra on how to play the game...
...
^^^ see above ^^^
Sounds like you need better healers or a better rotation. Once again not the rogues fault.
Can Rogues keep their topped off with heals using their 8/8 Tier 1 set bonus on Loatheb or any other fight that has major AoE dmg?
Likewise, can a Rogue use Nightfall?[/quote]
No but a warrior can.
I’ll just post it again:
How well does this data hold up if instead of 60-seconds encounters, we have 5-10 minutes encounters?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
How well does this data hold up if instead of 60-seconds encounters, we have 5-10 minutes encounters?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
03/19/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Jefra...
Sounds like you need better healers or a better rotation. Once again not the rogues fault.
Can Rogues keep their topped off with heals using their 8/8 Tier 1 set bonus on Loatheb or any other fight that has major AoE dmg?
Likewise, can a Rogue use Nightfall?
No but a warrior can.[/quote]
I'll repeat this here since you ignored it...
CAN A ROGUE OR WARRIOR KEEP THEIR ENTIRE GROUP TOPPED OFF WITH AOE HEALS USING THEIR 8/8 TIER 1 SET BONUS?!?!?
...
Can Rogues keep their topped off with heals using their 8/8 Tier 1 set bonus on Loatheb or any other fight that has major AoE dmg?
Likewise, can a Rogue use Nightfall?
No but a warrior can.
I'll repeat this here since you ignored it...
CAN A ROGUE OR WARRIOR KEEP THEIR ENTIRE GROUP TOPPED OFF WITH AOE HEALS USING THEIR 8/8 TIER 1 SET BONUS?!?!?[/quote]
Between crusader the t3 set bonus healthstones and shadow pots the rogue doesn't need heals he's not gonna die before the boss dies.
03/19/2018 01:27 PMPosted by ElfabulousI’ll just post it again:
How well does this data hold up if instead of 60-seconds encounters, we have 5-10 minutes encounters?
Ideally the 1.10 itemization changes never happen and we have mages stacking intellect and spirit for 15-minutes Nefarian. In that case, does the difference between survival and bm dps become noticeable? What about Nightfall uptimes, are they the same?
It does not stack up because the itemization is not the problem on the private realms.
Kill times did not change much in original vanilla as of 1.10; they did however reduce with 1.11 when tanking was changed.
Regardless of this it was not by the massive amount reduced on the private realms.
The private realm kill times are a result of private server tuning and guess work. Instead of trying to mirror original kill times they were simply married to the gross figures they could find with research. This is a noble way to do things, but does not net you the results you're going to get when playing on servers that were tuned more like original world of warcraft.
Hits, glancing blows, misses, dodges, blocks, parry, resists, armor. No one actually knows how this is calculated on the original blizzard servers because one of this stuff is calculated on the client side; it was all done on the server side.
The client does show us a few things, but it does not get into the meat and potatoes of the boss fights.