11/08/2018 01:54 PMPosted by
Cysmite
I think you all forget the Hunter brings Trueshot Aura as well. Its like actually significantly better.
sup cysthen - how's it going dude?
TSA is a given in everything I've theorycrafted - lol @ Survival Hunters stacking their +AGI talent to squeeze out a little more personal DPS compared to providing TSA to the group
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This is a pretty old concept, but you've got it about right. Melee hunter is widely considered the best user of Nightfall (for uptime), with ret pally, OT warrior, and enhancement shammie almost all exactly tied for 2nd. Nightfall uptime is about all that really matters in this regards as DPS is pretty average for all of these classes anyway (though done right a melee hunter can kick some !@#). Another benefit to having hunters of course is the wolf raid buff.
it's all relative as the Melee Hunter on his own only does 1/3 to 1/2 of my DPS for only a few more seconds of debuff uptime.
that being said, the best situation is to have ALL THREE people swing Nightfall to maximize your debuff uptime as much as possible:
Ret Paladin + Melee Hunter + OT Warrior = you could maintain ~70-80% debuff uptime
Yeah... the agile surv hunters always bugged me on my hunter.
You could only do that if you had enough hunters for TSA on every physical damage group and more...
And then, why on earth would you have that many hunters?
Yea totally, melee survival is definitively not a raiding spec. Still, it checks off the boxes for PVP and PVE quite nicely, certainly better than one would think. The shock that a ganking warrior must experience when you pull out your daggers and go ham on him is priceless.
It is probably the most viable "for fun" build of 'em all, though feel free to correct me if there is something I've missed - I'm always looking for ways to make crazy builds viable!
Oh God, Theloras found the classic forums. Watch out blizz devs!
Such great work here! Know this is an older thread but definitely valuable for people who don’t know / haven’t thought of this as an option for raiding.
unfortunately not, because our test results showed that Enhancement is actually the worst of all classes/specs that can swing Nightfall
this is due to the fact that Blizzard nerfed Windfury to NOT trigger procs over the course of Vanilla - which leaves them with only auto attack and Stormstrike (20 sec cd) to be able to trigger Nightfall debuff
this leaves them at ~25% total uptime
I’m not going to read through 236 posts because I’m at work, but from my memory the premise that SoR/JoR procs melee effects is wrong.
SoR/JoR damage should scale with spell power and rank only, and their hits do NOT count as melee, hence can not proc melee trinkets. Crits are 1.5x
SoC scales off ap and possibly sp (can’t remember), and JoC sp only. Both go off melee crit, and JoC procs melee trinkets (don’t believe SoC does though, although I think it can proc judgements of wisdom/light. SoC can proc once during a reckoning burst, but SoR does off each hit.
I don’t know how most private servers coded it but pretty sure they’re wrong. This comes as someone that was enthusiastic about ret in vanilla and may pick it back up for classic.
Oh, also SoR can’t proc judgement of wisdom/light. I haven’t done the math or am not 100 percent sure on whether SoC (double procs on attack and seal proc), or SoTC would regen mana/hp faster. Probably SoC for short term with some luck and sacrificing less damage, or SoTC for longer periods.
yes SoR/JoR does trigger procs in Vanilla - this was specifically changed by Blizzard during the 1.9 patch:
Seal of Righteousness - Now does holy damage on every swing. It can now proc correctly as well. The Judgement effect has been renamed “Judgement of Righteousness” to differentiate it from the Seal damage in the combat log.
Judgement of Righteousness - The damage of this judgement was increased significantly. This judgement can now trigger procs. The bonus from spell damage items has been increased slightly.
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.9.0
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Fair enough, memory isn’t perfect.
Is there any video evidence that you know of that shows Flametongue not proccing weapon procs? I know there is no patch note evidence and because it is applied as an enchant the likelihood is low.
Interesting tidbit about SoR: Seal of Righteousness hits are also considered an additional melee strike for the purposes of additional weapon procs; for example, a Fiery Weapon enchant has a chance to proc off both the white hit and the SoR hit. Flametongue totem acts the same way: With Righteousness up, a paladin will get two Flametongue hits per swing, as it’s adding damage for both the swing and the proc. Other weapon procs are presumed to work the same fashion.
Edit: SoR acting like a melee swing also explains why it’s affected by Weapon Spec talents.
http://forums.elitistjerks.com/topic/9664-paladin-seal-mechanics/page-3
the page is long gone but if you do a search on twinstar’s bug report page for
“#VANILLA-6785: [Seal of Righteousness]” you will find it and other info laid out
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I know about SoR acting as a weapon hit, plenty of evidence available. I was talking about evidence of whether Flametongue weapon did the same as SoR, i.e. acting as an extra weapon swing.
no i know - read what I posted again
" Flametongue totem acts the same way"
That quote is only referring to the fact that flametongue totem acts as fiery weapon does.
oh sorry - i’ve never played a Shaman so I’m a derp at how they play
The only other class other than paladin that interests me.
It’s my opinion that because of the kinda incomplete design direction of Paladin, Shaman, and Hunter that makes them the most interesting classes in Classic WoW by a large margin.
If I play alliance I’ll have to play a paladin alt.
I just hope you guys are in the paladin classic forum to discuss the finer details.
However, if I play horde then I’ll alt a shaman.
Were talking about 40 man raids here, there is always a couple underperforming dps might as well let them have some utility 
I am more for enchancement shaman nightfall providing improved windfury but thats just me because if your not healing as pally your doing it wrong 
I like my paladins looking like they just bought their entire outfit from the goodwill lol.
Cloth leather, it helps healing it fits its good!
#horde player.