My biggest issue is, like some, the Nightborne model just doesn’t look at cool as some of the NPC stuff presented. But story-wise, I’m fine with it. The Horde clearly succeeded. And I don’t think there’s much genuine kinship between them and the Night Elves, history considered.
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They didn’t have to do it, but they did.
The reason I’m convinced this is what they did, and they knew they were sacrificing the Horde as a plot-device at the alter of Sylvie’s personal narrative … is the Cinematics. Amazing as they were, didja notice how none of the ideals or ideas expoused within them werem’t allowed to actually influence the plot; until it was convenient to let them do so? This is symbolic of what Sylvie was doing, and what she needed to get done, being more important than any of the “Honor Horde” concepts portrayed in those lip service cinematics. Which is why none of the Horde characters that should have had an issue with Teldrassil, were allowed to have an issue with Teldrassil.
It was Sylvie’s first, Horde second. The reason she “needed” to be Warchief to pull this off, was largely that Vol’jin sort of hated her, and wouldn’t have put up with her nonsense if she had attempted even her stunt in Stormheim had he remained in charge.
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This is my issue with what you’re saying. The Highborne did not have literally a different culture from non-Highborne night elves. Urban night elves lived in the same magical cities as urban Highborne. The Highborne viewed them with contempt, yes. But it was still the same society. It was also nothing like apartheid South Africa. That’s complete nonsense.
Your original argument that I was responding to was the idea that non-Highborne night elves had no claim to the cities of the Kaldorei Empire. You said those were Highborne alone. I demonstrated, through examples in lore, that that’s not true. My saying that the Highborne were not a majority, and in fact were a minority population, was to reinforce that.
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You seem to be thinking that the Kal’dorei Empire was some kind of meritocracy. the Highborne were a small part of the population but they held 90 percent of the political power. They even had their own language which was the foundation of modern Thalassian.
The Kal’dorei night elves walked away from the kind of city that Suramar represents. The Quel’dorei kept to their Highborne heritage and recreated it …as best they could in Quel’thelas.
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None of that has any bearing on your claim that night elves had nothing to do with night elf cities. A claim that, again, I cited lore to disprove.
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I think it is clear they deliberately decided to specifically make the Horde evil. They had the Horde’s own leaders say the Horde has always been evil and wrong in Thrall’s and Saurfang’s speeches. I also think they believe that having a Baine lead council will make everything OK. Except even if too much hadn’t happened to make that impossible, this is the second time go around with all the broken reassurances. I’ve seen no indication Blizzard has any plot for the Horde this isn’t being the villians for Alliance players.
Before BfA, I said on this forum that if they did Garrosh again, there was no getting around that Blizzard had no other vision for the Horde. After it happened, I decided I saw no reason to believe I wasn’t right and I unsubscribed. Switching to Alliance is one last chance of being able to enjoy and otherwise good game.
And yes, I know that this may attract people pushing the “Alliance has never done anything wrong and the Horde has always been evil meme”. Don’t really care. Won’t read them. It is a meme based on double standards and cherry picking facts and seem mostly design to make some players feel better my making others feel worse. And don’t get me started on Alliance players telling Horde players how wrong they are about how Horde players felt about the game.
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While of course, the ancient cities like Suramar are part of Kaldorei history. They have not much if anything in common with the current Night elf society.
Not only that, the highborne prevented the lowborne access to the well of eternity, essentially rendering the lowborne not being able to use arcane magic in any major way.
Some cities did not even allow lowborne to live there.
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The entire Alliance celebrates the Lunar Festival, a decidedly night elven festival and with the return of the Gilneans to the fold the Hallow’s End Festival got a more “spiritual” flair to it.
The night elves fought during the War of Shifting Sands and the Satyr War. And it is not like the high elves were particular fighting wars left and right. Aside from the Troll Wars and Warcraft 1-3 they were mostly safe and secure behind their magic.
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Entrenched, sure, but to say that Suramar was important to the community of night elves living outside of the city? An erroneous statement. The two are apart enough for night fans to be reminiscent of, as I said in my last post, “we wuzzers”.
Much that I am LOATHE to make IRL comparisons, it’d be like if a modern day person from Italy considered the Romans their ancestors. Sure, I guess, but hardly. Yes, one lot are immortal (and seldom even went into Suramar!), but the simply awful IRL comparison is still worth mentioning, because I literally cannot even begin to understand the POV that Suramar is important culturally for modern night elves, apart from Shandris or Tyrande. If anything, it’s more important to blood elves, as they would have been the ones to have lived in the big magical cities - now that’s something I know will cause a fuss.
Reminder that not everyone RPs, this character is a nightborne because I like them.
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Well when you let idealistic idiots like Tyrande flaunt her superiority just for fighting accouple of wars then what makes you think they’d make for a good ally?
I agree. I’d never make the argument that current night elf society is a reflection of pre-Sundering night elf society. It most definitely is not. But pre-Sundering night elf cities ARE a part of night elf history. That’s really the only argument I’ve been making.
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The Highborne of Eldre’thelas are no longer the arrogant noble snobs of the Pre-Sundering days. They allowed themselves to degenerate and ultimately become fodder for the insane manipulations of their Prince.
And in ultimate humiliation, they were rescued by low-born and round-eared commoners. Part of the price of joining Darnassian society was leaving that ancient arrogance in the ruins of Dire Maul.
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It occured 9300 years ago to be precise.
Again, as I said ASIDE from the trolls wars and Warcraft RTS the high elves were mostly living safely behind their enchanted walls. The utter hypocrisy of them blaming the night elves for doing nothing is laughable.
So? The night elves regardless of their own losses still charged against the Legion when it was threatening its own people. When Deathwing burned their lands/the Horde assaulted them they still helped finally end him and his minions.
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From their point of view they were. The Night Elves did not fight the Troll Wars nor did they fight the Horde in the First and Second Wars. Nor were they involved when Arthas was taking apart Lordaeron with the Scourge.
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They were on the other side of the world. I doubt they knew about the Horde until the war itself was nearly done. More importantly, I doubt they had a moral obligation to help exile who refused to obey their tenets on magic.
Which reinforces Liadrin’s view that the Night Elves did nothing from the time of the Sundering until the Third War.
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One Night Elf did, Emmarel Shadewarden:
- Thas’dorah is a mighty bow indeed! The weapon was carved from a limb of Thas’alah, the mother tree of Eversong, and infused with the magic of the Sunwell. I fought alongside its first wielder, Talanas Windrunner, during an Amani troll incursion.
Neither was Quel’Thalas. They barely even got involved after Lordaeron’s fall to Arthas.
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Not sure that’s necessarily the Troll Wars.
I would say it is, but the lore around The Farstriders is murky. Chronicle says they were formed right around the formation of Quel’thalas. Tales of the Hunt says it was the Trolls Wars.
Anyway, mostly just reads odd calling it an Amani troll incursion. Implying multiple. And not just saying ‘the Troll Wars’.
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Indeed, the context for Talanas Windrunner and Thas’dorah was from Tales of the Hunt:
- The conflict would become known as the Troll Wars, and the death toll rose quickly. An order of fighters called rangers was founded to defend Quel’Thalas.
The greatest of these early rangers was Talanas Windrunner, a master of archery and ranged combat. He swiftly rose in the ranks and was named the first ranger-general of Silvermoon for his bravery and valor. The leaders of Silvermoon commemorated the occasion by declaring that their champion be given a weapon befitting his new status.
Highborne weaponsmiths set to work immediately.
A trio of skilled artisans joined together to create a great bow for Talanas. They carved its body from a limb taken from Thas’alah and infused the wood with the waters of the Sunwell.
Immersed in arcane power, the bow began to change. It was hardened, becoming nearly indestructible, and yet it still maintained its connection to the natural magics of Thas’alah.
When it was retrieved from the Sunwell, the bow radiated power. Talanas was humbled by the gift. He named the weapon Thas’dorah, “Valor of the Forest.”
He promised that, as long as this weapon protected Highborne lands, Silvermoon would never fall.
Talanas made good on his promise. Thas’dorah’s power was so skillfully wrought that even a novice would have been able to hit a target from a hundred paces. In his hands, each arrow sang as it sailed to its mark.
The Amani trolls soon learned to fear the sight of his bow, for if they ever caught a glimpse of it, they were within its range. They were forced to retreat, allowing the Highborne elves to settle deeper into the forest.
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The Story of the Troll warS begann 6800 years ago, and was not only the great Trollwar^^