Night elves did NOT get their revenge, this is unacceptable!

[Fangalmouth-wyrmrest-accord]

Could we just have one elf race that isn’t dying or low in population. Someone needs to keep the rest of the human population at bay (Forsaken, Kul’Tiras, Human, Worgen, then you got Gnomes and Dwarves who just look like smaller humans).

That would be where every OTHER race comes in. Arakkoa would be a good example. XD

[Rorrand-wyrmrest-accord (Rorrand)]

Now tyrande is in a great spot to get similar treatment except she gets her super night elf god super night elf powers now rather than later down the road.

And if there’s any character that needs a makeover it’s Tyrande. I’ve found her particularly insufferable even as far back as WC3, and she definitely hasn’t gotten better in modern WoW.

I still remember the atrocity that was her MoP characterization…

Tyrande: “I want to rush all my soldiers into the temple and kill all the Horde!”
Varian: “No, it’s a trap.”
Tyrande: “But Variaaaan!”
Varian: “I said no!”
Tyrande: “Pleeeeeeeeeeease!”
Varian: “Patience, Tyrande!”
Tyrande: …
Tyrande: “Oh, looks like you were right. I have a lot to learn from you, Varian. I could have gotten everyone killed!”
[Fast forward three expansions]
Tyrande: “I want to rush all my soldiers into Darkshore and kill all the Horde!”
Anduin: “No, we don’t have the troops for that.”
Tyrande: “But Anduiiiiiiiin!”

[Sneakisneaki-argent-dawn (Sneakisneaki)]

they’re done with Tyrande

We’re all done with Tyrande.

[Tyleen-sentinels]

I love Sylvanas. Always have and always will. That being said there’s two points in history that I’d consider unforgivable. The first was her behavior at the Wrath Gate. The second being the burning of that tree, which I’d consider the worse of the two. Innocents should never be targeted. True, they might be enemies in the future but in the current moment they’re just living their lives. Just the thought of young, and children, Night Elves being slaughtered because reasons kinda pissed me off. And I don’t even have Alliance toons. It should be an unspoken rule for both sides. You don’t target innocents.

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

I get the point behind your post. And I agree with it mostly. However, I don’t blame Sylvanas for Teldrassil, oddly enough. I blame Saurfang. Had Saurfang done his job, and taken Malfurion’s head, Sylvanas wouldn’t have done what she did. It was his insubordination that caused the burning of innocents, and his smug attitude afterward, which we learn about in A Good War.

Sylvanas is obviously to blame for the direct action, but the reasoning behind it isn’t entirely her doing. And many people don’t hold Saurfang accountable for it.

[Pheonia-azuremyst (Pheonia)]

So, where do I even start with this whole thing? Well, let’s see here:
Sylvanas has planned an attack on the night elves because “they could think about attacking the horde in the future”, so if the horde attacks first, this won’t be able to happen.

This was driven by Greymane’s attack on her in Stormheim. She knew it was only a matter of time before the tentative peace would be shattered, so she wanted the advantage.

To end the whole thing, she commited genocide against Night elves that were still in Teldrassil, knowing that only innocents/civilians remained in there.

Most of Teldrassil was evacuated. Yes, lives were lost, but it wasn’t the majority of the population.

There are barely any night elves left in Azeroth now, the race is basically going extinct at this point (according to official lore).

I don’t recall ever reading that they are going extinct, though it’s possible I missed it. That has been stated about trolls however, and I’ve never seen a post complaining about it.

Tyrande has gained new powers with the few people left of the night elves, but the only thing they managed to do is kill 1 of Sylvanas Val’kyrs.

This was a huge blow to Sylvanas.

I’m not saying I like the story. I really hate it, and wish we hadn’t gone in that direction. Just wanted to clarify a couple points.

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

This was a huge blow to Sylvanas.

Correct. Most people don’t understand how huge the implications of even a single Val’kyr’s death are. A little bit of context clues and some math, on the other hand, show us that Sylvanas’ loss in Darkshore is rather massive.

[Eithris-doomhammer]

I’m actually pretty pleased with where the expansion’s story beats are pushing them today.

how dare you say that with how they’ve been shown so far in BfA? tyrande’s transoformation into elune’s avatar of vengeance was the most cringetastic emo goth wankery i’ve ever witnessed in my life, and i’ve attended a Twilight convention as a chaperone for my niece and her friends back in the day. it was so dumb it gave me chest pains, while the horde gets UTTERLY EPIC and completely gut-wrenchingly emotional story parts, like when the Orc(i think it’s saurfang, i’m not sure) in the one cinematic is talking to the younger troll, taking off his armor because he’s lost his honor and just wants a worthy death.

the night elves lost everything, and their CHILDREN were burned alive. and all they get is tyrande turning into a wannabe goth goku who does NOTHING of consequence with what is stated as supposedly elune’s deadliest, most terrible, and utterly destructive and powerful form.

no, take your “pretty pleased” and shove it. i like a lot of BfA’s writing and lore, but the devs basically said “we hate night elves and we don’t care what you think about it” with how they’ve treated them in this expac

[Araedrialles-moon-guard]

not even civilians were spared and just brutally murdered.

Is this actually canon though? From what I actually know if your player character chooses to slaughter non-guards during the questline of Darkshore for horde you get ‘chastised’ for it because it’s not honorable to kill defenseless people. At least to my knowledge anyway .

I can’t remember that such an atrocious event has ever happened in WoW.

There are multiple events in WoW that have been bad, one being the orcs slaughtering and doing not so good and trigger warning things to draenei women of all ages. You also have to remember Jaina went on a killing spree after the divine bell incident, something that Blizz has retconned and then not retconned multiple times. But the main disgusting and horrendous one being the orc one.

There was also the wrathgate, which did kill innocent alliance and horde in the war against the lich king solely for what the lich king has done. That’s pretty messed up too in my opinion.

She almost wiped out the Night elves, knowingly killed thousands of civilians and all that just to minimize the chance of getting attacked by the night elves in the future ? There are barely any night elves left in Azeroth now, the race is basically going extinct at this point (according to official lore).

Do you have a source for this? I don’t know the actual numbers of the Night elves anymore but I’m pretty sure the amount of night elves is still fine. There’s also the repopulation discussion that comes into play. They’re still a race, meaning they still have means of growing into large numbers.

Well, apparently, the devs see it otherwise: Tyrande has gained new powers with the few people left of the night elves, but the only thing they managed to do is kill 1 of Sylvanas Val’kyrs.

Her killing one of Sylv’s Val’kyr is actually pretty huge, there’s only…what 2 left? And they’re a very essential part of her keeping her people and herself prevalent right now at least to my knowledge. If she isn’t careful they’re going to all die and she’s going to be in some deep doodoo .

We also don’t even know if their full story with that is done. It’s obvious Tyrande has more plans for something to happen, and that she’s busy doing other things or else more than likely she would’ve been involved in Nazjatar given the history there. But one can say they avenged at least thousands killed… They’ve done a good a bit of damage, but not all and it’s clear they still have plans or else it doesn’t make sense to powering her up for one small scene.

him raising 2 of Sylvanas commanders as undeads.

To my knowledge wardens aren’t under Tyrande’s direct command? I believe they’re solely Maiev’s territory, and Maiev and Tyrande aren’t the worlds biggest fans of one another, but it’s obvious their intentions are the same. Don’t quote me on that though.

Also, in regards to Teldrassil as a whole, technically it was more or less Saurfangs fault because he didn’t carry out the original plans. Which is seen in the short story for Darkshore. Had he actually had the guts to do what he did then not everything would have happened, she simply wanted to drive a wedge between the alliance as she sees war between the two factions inevitable. There’s a lot of history between the two, and she feels neither can simply forget everything that happened and let bygones be bygones.

All in all, I don’t think the story’s just done and I feel it’s a bit obvious given everything. And that part of the history will remain something that will drive Tyrande to wanting to see Sylvanas dead, but they’ve already stated “she won’t be dying” at least this expac anyway.

Edit : If anything this is only a portion of revenge for a portion of people she slaughtered. .

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

how dare you say that with how they’ve been shown so far in BfA?

Easy there outrage-culture. He’s entitled to his opinion.

tyrande’s transoformation into elune’s avatar of vengeance was the most cringetastic emo goth wankery i’ve ever witnessed in my life, and i’ve attended a Twilight convention as a chaperone for my niece and her friends back in the day.

Sure. And it was much worse on PTR. Be thankful it was given some attention at all and changed. I say this as a night elf fan, what you got isn’t the worst. The worst was on the PTR.

it was so dumb it gave me chest pains, while the horde gets UTTERLY EPIC and completely gut-wrenchingly emotional story parts, like when the Orc(i think it’s saurfang, i’m not sure) in the one cinematic is talking to the younger troll, taking off his armor because he’s lost his honor and just wants a worthy death.

If something about WoW is giving you chest pains you need to take a break. I’m not saying that to be rude, I’m just being honest. It’s fine to dislike something, but chest pains is a bit much.

the night elves lost everything, and their CHILDREN were burned alive. and all they get is tyrande turning into a wannabe goth goku who does NOTHING of consequence with what is stated as supposedly elune’s deadliest, most terrible, and utterly destructive and powerful form.

Except take out one of Sylvanas’ val’kyr, which I mentioned if you use a little context clues and do a little math means much more than you might think it does.

no, take your “pretty pleased” and shove it.

Rude.

i like a lot of BfA’s writing and lore, but the devs basically said “we hate night elves and we don’t care what you think about it” with how they’ve treated them in this expac

False. If they didn’t care, it wouldn’t have been changed at all on PTR. The fact they took criticism directly and made changes after voice acting had already been done and brought in those VA’s and paid them extra to deliver a more impactful scene certainly does mean something, including that the devs care. It might not be what you like or what you wanted, but the devs are certainly not trying to screw the night elves.

[Pheonia-azuremyst (Pheonia)]

You tell 'em!

[Eithris-doomhammer]

If they didn’t care, it wouldn’t have been changed at all on PTR.

i’m almost afraid to ask how it went for that quest chain’s lore on the PTR…

[Softsong-aggramar (Softsong)]

What did Tyrande say to Kael’thas after the High Elves were nearly wiped to extinction?

“I grieve for your people Kael, but you must not allow rage and despair to poison your heart, you may yet lead your people to a brighter future.”

I want to believe that even Tyrande realized that the path toward vengeance would not help her people survive, and that eventually it would poison her heart and spell out doom for the night elves. And if the High/Blood Elves could recover, I’m sure the night elves can too.

[Rhast-emerald-dream]

and doing not so good and trigger warning things to draenei women of all ages

I’m sorry, what? Are you sure you weren’t reading someones twisted fan fiction? I’ve read all the books and never seen even the slightest implication towards something like this.

[Araedrialles-moon-guard]

Saurfang’s lore as to why he doesn’t eat pork is because he remembers the things all orcs have done to the Draenei in the past when they came to Azeroth .

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

I’m sorry, what? Are you sure you weren’t reading someones twisted fan fiction? I’ve read all the books and never seen even the slightest implication towards something like this.

There’s a direct reference to it in game. Saurfang directly states he doesn’t eat pork over in Warsong Hold back in Wrath because of the violent death (among other things) inflicted upon the Draenei. There’s some very clear references to the Draenei being the victims of some other crimes prior to their murder.

I think the line is something to the effect of “the squealing of Draenei women and children, and how he enjoyed it and remembers very clearly enjoying it”.

[Rorrand-wyrmrest-accord (Rorrand)]

no, take your “pretty pleased” and shove it. i like a lot of BfA’s writing and lore, but the devs basically said “we hate night elves and we don’t care what you think about it” with how they’ve treated them in this expac

I’m sorry, but that’s absolutely ridiculous. You may disagree with the quality of the writing related to what happened to the Night Elves in BFA, but the fact remains that Legion and BFA feature the most focus Night Elves have ever gotten since WoW launched. The fact that I enjoy seeing the night elves headline their own assault on the undead in Darkshore, fielding the Ancients, Keepers, faerie dragons, and dryads that they used to at the peak of their military prowess, is not something I will apologize for. If the Burning of Teldrassil happened and the night elves were suddenly reduced to the level of plot irrelevance that the Tushui Pandaren are cursed with, only then would I be able to see your interpration of “we hate night elves and we don’t care what you think about it.” Blood Elves are one of the game’s most popular races and those guys are practically defined by a major act of canonical genocide. You simply cannot argue that a similar event happening to the night elves is a case of writer apathy. That would be a massive double standard.

how dare you say that with how they’ve been shown so far in BfA? tyrande’s transoformation into elune’s avatar of vengeance was the most cringetastic emo goth wankery i’ve ever witnessed in my life, and i’ve attended a Twilight convention as a chaperone for my niece and her friends back in the day. it was so dumb it gave me chest pains, while the horde gets UTTERLY EPIC and completely gut-wrenchingly emotional story parts, like when the Orc(i think it’s saurfang, i’m not sure) in the one cinematic is talking to the younger troll, taking off his armor because he’s lost his honor and just wants a worthy death.

And I maintain that Tyrande has always been the absolute worst part of Night Elf canon even before her transformation; hell, even before vanilla WoW. Nobody knows how to fix her character, what to do with her, or how to “empower” her. Fortunately, the night-elf focused stories of BFA and Legion rarely feature her, and those are the stories that are the strongest. It wasn’t Tyrande that led the night elves in Legion; it was Maiev. It wasn’t Tyrande that leads the night elf military efforts in BFA; it’s Shandris. And the Darkshore Warfront, a spectacle of the ferocity inherent in the night elven army, makes the correct choice not to even have Tyrande present during the conflict.

The general rule that has often determined my enjoyment of night elf narratives is “the less we care about Tyrande, the better.” Which is a shame, because I love virtually everything else about Night Elf culture and lore. But I can’t blame BFA for what it did to Tyrande; she’s always been insufferable.

i’m almost afraid to ask how it went for that quest chain’s lore on the PTR…

Tyrande didn’t kill either of the Val’kyr, none of the night elf spirits resisted the Horde’s efforts to raise them from the dead, and Nathanos was able to hold off Tyrande without being empowered by the Val’kyr. They changed all of that based on user feedback.

[Ëlësåna-maelstrom]

Most of Teldrassil was evacuated. Yes, lives were lost, but it wasn’t the majority of the population.

Nope, actually just a small portion of the night elven population was spared

I don’t recall ever reading that they are going extinct, though it’s possible I missed it. That has been stated about trolls however, and I’ve never seen a post complaining about it.

It’s mentioned in Elegy that there are far too little left now after the majority of their population was in teldrassil

Correct. Most people don’t understand how huge the implications of even a single Val’kyr’s death are. A little bit of context clues and some math, on the other hand, show us that Sylvanas loss in Darkshore is rather massive.

Well, as long as the other val’kyrs aren’t dead and sylvanas hasn’t died after that, she has absolutely nothing compared to what night elves lost. In fact, even if sylvanas died completely and went to hell the night elves still can’t be considered avenged.

Is this actually canon though? From what I actually know if your player character chooses to slaughter non-guards during the questline of Darkshore for horde you get ‘chastised’ for it because it’s not honorable to kill defenseless people. At least to my knowledge anyway .

On the horde side you can somewhat choose to spare civilians, on the alliance side however it’s said that all civilians were killed. And then in the Warbringer cinematic sylvanas basically targeted innocents.

There are multiple events in WoW that have been bad, one being the orcs slaughtering and doing not so good and trigger warning things to draenei women of all ages. You also have to remember Jaina went on a killing spree after the divine bell incident, something that Blizz has retconned and then not retconned multiple times. But the main disgusting and horrendous one being the orc one.

There was also the wrathgate, which did kill innocent alliance and horde in the war against the lich king solely for what the lich king has done. That’s pretty messed up too in my opinion.

Well but those are all not on such a huge scale as the burning of teldrassil.

Do you have a source for this? I don’t know the actual numbers of the Night elves anymore but I’m pretty sure the amount of night elves is still fine. There’s also the repopulation discussion that comes into play. They’re still a race, meaning they still have means of growing into large numbers.

Short story called Elegy

Her killing one of Sylv’s Val’kyr is actually pretty huge, there’s only…what 2 left? And they’re a very essential part of her keeping her people and herself prevalent right now at least to my knowledge. If she isn’t careful they’re going to all die and she’s going to be in some deep doodoo .

Mentioned that part earlier

[Rhast-emerald-dream]

I always just assumed it was in reference to the Draenei being “butchered like pigs”. Is that last quote actually in game? I’m actually kind of butthurt now… I always thought Blizzard did an amazing job of portraying the orcs as being so bloodthirsty that all they wanted to do was kill and destroy as opposed to dumb things.

[Shadina-gorefiend (Shadina)]

Well, as long as the other val’kyrs aren’t dead and sylvanas hasn’t died after that, she has absolutely nothing compared to what night elves lost. In fact, even if sylvanas died completely and went to hell the night elves still can’t be considered avenged.

Again. Do a little math. You don’t really know what you’re talking about. Consider this: the first time Sylvanas died, it took one Valk. The second time, it took three. Multiple other ones (including the one in Darkshore) have already been taken out, and Eyir was freed from Sylvanas in Stormheim.

Doesn’t take a mathematician (I’m not one, believe me) to understand the pattern. Sylvanas is screwed and faces true death because there aren’t enough Val’kyr to bring her back at this point considering it would take more than three, and less than those exist currently.

Tyrande dealt a pretty big blow right there. She probably knows it too. Vengeance for the fallen doesn’t have to be immediate.