They lost Brill to the Alliance. That isn’t Brill. That is the Undercity.
Yeah, we could fill volumes with the things you don’t know, and still ignorantly post.
The Forsaken lost settlements in Tirisfal to the Alliance. Not to themselves.
By the time it is blown up, the Alliance had claimed it as there’s. The Forsaken had lost it to the Alliance.
Which is why she says : “You won nothing.”
They lost a part of Tirisfal to the Alliance, and their city and Lordaeron to themselves.
Besides, it’s not like Tirisfal is entirely destroyed and unable to be recovered like Teldrassil. And Ashenvale was given to the Horde. Plus, unlike the Night Elves, the Forsaken still exist. They can recover, find a new home, repair their old home etc., the Night Elves can’t.
This not stated anywhere. More head canon and out right lies, from you.
We know the Alliance won both Warfronts - so they have Darkshore back. And we know that the two Factions withdrew from Kul Tiras and Zandalar as part of the armistice. But the status of Ashenvale is not stated.
The Night Elves still exist, too.
Actually, it’s stated thrice:
In “A Good War”, maybe try reading the short story?
In 8.1 the Horde had full control of all Night Elf territory up until the Alliance arrived by boat
The Alliance took until Shadowlands pre patch to reclaim Darkshore, yet never got Ashenvale and the war ended.
As a handful of refugees on the streets of Stormwind with nowhere to go.
Actually, that is never stated anywhere. The Horde was not given Ashenvale. They conquered it.
The Horde conquered it. If the Night Elves gave Ashenvale, like you said, they wouldn’t be fighting for it.
There is a difference between being given something and conquering it.
It is almost like the story continued, and the Alliance was winning on all fronts by the time we go to Nazjatar.
Yes. The Night Elves have reclaimed some of their territory. Making your statements all the more false :
They reclaimed their territory - they can live there.
Obviously you didn’t read Elegy - because it is more than a handful. They are covering the streets and pouring out of the city.
You even acknowledged they reclaimed Darkshore. And they go to Hyjal freely. They have places to go.
That remains to be seen. We didn’t know the armistice required the Factions to pull out of their holdings on enemy territory in Kul Tiras and Zandalar until Shadows Rising informed us.
The status of Azeroth, and who owns what, while we are away, is not known to us. But we do know the Alliance was winning on all fronts, they won both war fronts, and they even fortified Tiragarde Keep. It seems more likely than not they also reclaimed Ashenvale - but unlike you, I can acknowledge the status is unknown.
Nope, the writers gave the Horde Ashenvale. The Alliance players had no chance to defend it.
Above.
Yea, the story continued and the Alliance never reconquered Ashenvale. In fact, they took until the pre patch to reclaim Darkshore.
Nope. Teldrassil is gone, Darkshore is destroyed and blighted and the Horde has Ashenvale. They can’t send civilians to Darkshore with the Horde right at their doorstep.
The Alliance reclaimed it, not the Night Elves.
They don’t, since Hyjal is a neutral zone anyway.
You interpreting Tyrande’s location of choice for a meeting as a new home is your mistake.
So unless stated otherwise, the Horde still controls Ashenvale.
And they are not going to give Ashenvale back to the Night Elves not only because the Night Elves are near extinct anyway, but because they would never want the Night Elves to win anything.
With everything that we know about how bad things are for the Night Elves and how they only have negative things happen to them ever, it is a guarantee that the Night Elves didn’t get Ashenvale.
Not the whole of it. The Night Elves saw fit to fight for it, even though you fail to grasp the lore.
And Tyrande chose renewal. Which bodes well for their ability to… you know… renew stuff.
The Night Elves are in the Alliance, and the Warfront is led by Maiev and Shandris. The commanders are Night Elves. They lead the charge.
Yes - they do.
Tyrande and Shandris and Maiev and Malfurion are there. There is even a small child playing an instrument.
Your interpretation of Night Elves being unable to go to a place they actually go to is simply false.
Nonsense and conjecture. Certainly not canon.
More head canon conjecture. Certainly not guaranteed.
That is said… no where. Except your head.
The current Alliance doesn’t have responsibility for Arthas nor should they be associated with him because the kingdom he was part of is not in this current iteration of the Alliance and never was. Said kingdom is, in fact, on the Horde, but no one is claiming he’s the fault of the Forsaken, nor should they.
The current Alliance doesn’t even make sense to tie to Arthas because everyone associated with the old Alliance of Lordaeron is very, very, very dead. The bones of the WoW’s Alliance were formed in WC3 in response to Arthas and the Legion. You know, the whole thing with Jaina gathering everyone she could, sailing across the sea, and teaming up with the Night Elves (eventually, there was some backsliding) and Thrall’s Horde to defeat the Legion.
Stormwind, the core of the Alliance at the moment, wasn’t even a factor at the time. They were still rebuilding and likely were peering north and going ‘the heck are they doing over there??’.
The Horde gets smacked with stuff from the Old Horde because many of the Orcs who participated in those atrocities are still alive, for one. And for another the Horde keeps getting written to do warmongering things. Moreover, in the case of the Orcs, the atrocities committed by the Old Horde were a cornerstone of their themes before Blizzard decided that nuance was too hard for their brains. The entire point of the Orcs was “Yes, we did terrible things, but we’re not just going to disappear. We’re going to build something better than before, so either help or get out of our way.”
Take that away with false equivalencies and Orcs have even less depth than before.
I don’t necessarily agree in the sense that people on the Alliance like Jaina, do have ties to Arthas still. Also, the Alliance is also made of survivors of Lordearon to the point Terenas’ crown is actually buried in Stormwind. Varian was also at one point had a fraternal bond with Arthas.
There was never “two” Alliance. As far as the people of the Alliance are concerned they are one and the same from Warcraft 2, only now with new people.
Having said that Sylvanas is even more of a hypocrite though because she does blame everything that happened on the Alliance, when in fact it was actually as much if not more so the fault of the Horde, Ner’zhul was the Lich King at one point.
No, what I’m doing is the equivalent of accusing a guy of running over his kid in a car, while simultaneously claiming that he’s that kid’s dad.
Yeah actually. That’s fair. He was a Lordaeron commander, and Lordaeron didn’t stop him, so they’re responsible for his actions.
It’s also STILL the Alliance’s fault as well though. Because, again, he was an Alliance commander as well, and the Alliance didn’t stop him either.
Having in-universe arguments is banal and ridiculous when we all know the writers don’t care about neither sociopolitical nor sociocultural depth and the writing has gotten worse and worse as time goes on.
This is still incorrect. There was no break in continuity between the Alliance in WC3 and the Alliance in WoW. The Alliance’s full name is still technically “the Alliance of Lordaeron” and that is made apparent by the abundance of its heraldry present in the Alliance as well as its retention of Lordaeron’s remaining holdings post-Third War.
There was no political break or reformation. The only thing that changed was the Alliance’s internal balance of power.
I do agree though that if people want to throw out accusations of the Alliance being responsible for Arthas then they needs to accept the Alliance’s historical and present claims to Lordaeron though. People can’t have it both ways.
Stormwind was a minor, remote presence at the time that swelled to where it is now because it absorbed so many of the people of Lordaeron following the Third War. There is direct continuity between the fate of the Kingdom of Lordaeron and the fate of the Kingdom of Stormwind.
Except we totally can. Because the people of Lordaeron were historically Alliance, and presently Horde. And with them goes the claim to Lordaeron.
Blondes just have more fun!
Except blaming the Alliance for things that happened within the government of the Kingdom of Lordaeron requires accepting that the Alliance is the successor to the Kingdom of Lordaeron, which makes sense given the abundance of Lordaeronians in the Alliance and the fact that the Alliance and its people actively consider themselves the successor state to the Kingdom of Lordaeron, including taking up its representation on the world stage as its successor state, which would include both responsibility for Arthas’ actions and rightful claim to the Kingdom of Lordaeron’s internationally recognized borders, which include the lands that the Horde has invaded.
You can keep saying “nuh-uh” all you want but 2 + 2 will never equal 3.
This thread has become, “The blame game”. Seems no-one has noticed it.
Look at the title of the thread and tell me you’re actually suprised?
It was bound to happen 
Hell yeah I can!
It is a thread dedicated to an event between the Alliance/Horde. Of course this is what will happen.
I blame the Developers, no one else. I mean, it wasn’t any of the players* story idea to made the Horde Holocaust perpetrators nor the Night Elves Holocaust victims.
*well, I can’t speak for some Forsaken posters here…