I agree with everything you said. What I wrote was a rebuttal of any argument as to the current Alliance’s claim on Lordaeron. They have none. I also believe, as per the original lore, that the average Forsaken tries to strike a balance between the person they were in life and what they had become in undeath.
But yes, the danger with Calia as a Light-born Undead is that she will effectively white-wash the Forsaken into something that would be more aesthetically pleasing to the Alliance but effectively destroy everything that made them unique, special and badass.
What I would like to see is Calia becoming ‘darker’ - overcoming her preconceptions and the messiah complex she undoubtedly has and actually embracing aspects of Forsaken culture, no matter what her former Alliance friends think, whilst helping them improve by bringing back the memory of what they were.
As @Izhkarl said, this was retconned somewhat by ‘Before the Storm’ but it is what I had always seen the Forsaken to be like. Perhaps the intention of the book was to erode one of the reasons why Sylvanas was admirable with the ultimate intention of ensuring that it was brought back by Calia. I would like to think so.
If they don’t go down this direction of making Calia more ‘Forsaken’ and instead make the Forsaken more ‘Alliance’, like lots of people fear, that would be awful.
It’s not my job to remember every single one of your posts. If you’re going to use something in an argument that’s not easily looked up, you’re obliged to at least post a link to it. Besides I’ve seen many people who say “I’ve done the math”, but haven’t done so, to take any such statement for granted.
You’re the one invoking something to make an argument so you’re obliged to either present it or accept the fact that it’s absence makes it irrelevant.
I’m pretty sure they do need cities. Since the lack of unique and different cities is the major problem of the World of Warcraft and everyone and their uncle of kind of tried of Stormwind and Orgrimmar alot and would rather be seeing Night Elf and Undead Cities or have the Goblins and Gnomes with their own cities and the Worgen and Trolls as well.
The cinematic for Warcraft Classic states that it’s 4 years since the Battle of Hyjal. That’s the base date to work from that’s the only definitive gap we are given between events. The time for each expansion since then has a fair amount of wool in it.
Again, if you don’t have full context of the conversation, don’t @ me.
There are, of course, discrepancies, because Blizz doesn’t know their own lore, and talk out their rear end most of the time. But I think basic arithmetic is a more reliable source than whatever some Blizz dev says. I will say that it seems most expansions are uniformly about 2 years, if we want to assume the passage of time is split evenly among the number of expansions.
In which case, we are at 18 years since the end of Classic, meaning more than 20 years since Lordaeron fell.
I think that is a reasonable assumption since MOP and WoD together is said to be 4 years. TBC, Wrath, Cata, Mop and WoD being 10 years. Even distribution.
It’s my impression that Chronicle spitballed dates the same way that the original Star Trek created StarDates, i.e. they spat out a random set of numbers.
It’s clear that Burning Crusade is only about a couple of years after the events that kicked off Classic, and Wrath not that much longer afterwards and so on. Alliance players go out on walkabout with adolescent Anduin during Cataclysm and he’s a couple of years older when he gets himself lost in Pandaria.
About 2 years older. If Anduin is 18 in BtS, or just after Legion. He would be 16 in WoD, 14 in MoP, 12 in Cata. 10 in Wrath, 8 in TBC and six when WoW began. At the end of SL, we can predict he’ll be about 22.
They have just as valid a claim as the Forsaken do. Arguably more given that the Alliance was both there longer than the Forsaken were and haven’t been waging unprovoked wars of aggression like the Forsaken have.
This is simply a fact. It’s not a question of belief.
Like I said, the Kingdom of Lordaeron and the Alliance of Lordaeron weren’t the same thing. The Alliance is basically a military/social pact between various independent races and nations. It’s not one country comprised of states like the US. Otherwise, the Alliance may as well claim Quel’Thalas.
The funny thing about this is, aside from KT and Gilneas, there is nothing that makes human Kingdoms culturally distinct from each other. Like, the difference between Lordaeron and Stormwind at this time is… What? Location and sigil.
Anything that would making them culturally distinct is either identical or nonexistent. Stormwind vs Lordaeron Cusine? Stormwind vs Lordaeron language/accent/dialect? Stormwind vs Lordaeron fashion? Identical. Stormwind vs Lordaeron Music? Unknown. Stormwind vs Lordaeron religion? Identical. Even Stormwind vs Lordaeron national colors, Blue and Gold.
Like, Ainhin is really making a case that Lordaeron is the cultural and political heart of the Alliance when it has no discernable cultural or political structure of its own.
I never said they were. The Alliance has an abundance of Lordaeron citizens in it, including the current reagent of Stormwind, and all of them have just as valid a claim as the Forsaken do.
If I were to remake New Lordaeron, I would begin building in Western Plaguelands and Hillsbrad/Southshore. I think the surviving humans of Lordaeron who wish not to simply integrate into Stormwindian culture. Should also seek a refuge in the Scarlet Enclave i.e New Avalon with help from the Argent Crusade. The Alliance can remain neutral so that these humans would not be seen openly siding with the Alliance per se, but like a new Argent nation replacing the Lordaeron borders with their own population. Wouldn’t that be a compromise? Tirisfal for the holding of much of the Plaguelands and Hillsbrad Foothills. The Horde can keep Alterac ruins and Lordaeron city.
To be fair, Lordaeron and Stormwind are sister kingdoms. After the First War much of the original Stormwindian population was wiped out by the Horde so much so that the canals were filled with their corpses. King Terenas of Lordaeron paid King Varian gold and human capital to rebuild his protege’s kingdom. King Varian returned to Stormwind and slowly rebuilt it with the survivors of Stormwind and thousands of Lordaeronian people. So much so that the majority of Stormwind is an immigrant population supplanting any original distinct populations that existed prior and King Varian was a proponent of this. So it’s near identical sister nations. It’s unfair to use that as a reason to deny the survivors of Lordaeron and the ones who immigrated to Stormwind’s desire of rebuilding some version of Lordaeron in Lordaeron.
Cant both versions exist as sister kingdoms one bordered by the Forsaken led by Queen Calia as a way to temper the possibility of aggression? Argent Crusade holdings merged with Alliance holdings from the Fourth War? Forged into some new version of the nation that Ainhin and other human supporters can enjoy?
They all do have a common origin in the tribes of Arathor and Stromgarde, and the time of separtion isn’t so great that you would expect differrentiation save by circumstance, such as the patriarch of Kul Tiras doing it with a Walrus/Tuskarr.
I dont know how blizzard can UNF*** the lore and the franchise but I do know where to start:
Start over.
Literally have us be these stuff have all cosmetics etc etc raid gear and what not then just have it be restarted from post warcraft 3 or something like that
build from there. I know nightborne blablablablalbal void elves post wc3 wont make much sense (Lightforged draenei etc) But just.
WC3 is just alliance story ( human and NE) and a bit of last second orc content so, no thanks. Of course i see why alliance player want so bad to come back at a alliance favored WC3.
