Laugh twice?
Perplexity.
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I liberated the Plaguelands alongside the Alliance and personally defeated Kelâthuzad twice. Then I stormed Icecrown Citadel and took my vengeance on Arthas. Now Iâm fighting against the Cosmic Lord of Death that caused all this in the first place. A handful of Abomination guards are hardly sport at this point, especially given how pathetic the Hordeâs defense of the Undercity was.
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idk Guillotine rocks with her hugs.
https://i.imgur.com/lzgKR5E.jpg
What nonsense! Undead is a disease, nothing more. The Forsaken is a political group of sick people who have thrown away all morality. Not a race.
Not that I was against inhuman experiments ⌠But to have the consent of the experimental, obtained voluntarily and without the subtleties of jurisprudence.
You are a spoiled little fanatic who got triggered that he canât have his favorite toy. It is rather pathetic to watch you. I feel deeply sorry for the community that they have to put up with your nonsense.
So you admit Sylvanas is innocent then!
Arenât you the little Arthas, killing your own people.
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It isnât a privilege for the Horde to not be slaughtered by the Alliance after we have a âlearn to be goodâ story involving a brutal civil war as the Alliance High King promises to end the faction if they act without honor again. That is a âtheir foot is on our neckâ moment.
It isnât the privilege for the Horde to be made responsible for a genocide that becomes the justification for 8.1 to be dedicated to Alliance trouncing them all over, and before that losing Undercity. I get it, the scorched earth thing ruined the satisfaction, but the Horde still lost their city. Hurray, they didnât destroy Zandalar, which is so desperate for troops to fend of Naga afterwards that they need Vulpera help?
This âthe grass is always greenerâ logic combined with a persecution complex doesnât exactly give much reason for sympathy.
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Well, Blizzard calls them a race:
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Does this apply to the list of deceased Horde characters?
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Current count of dead Horce characters is far over 20. Blizzard has massacred our cast ever since TBC. It is a shame how far the Horde has fallen.
It is part of the problem the Horde has in particular, where the Alliance has other problems.
The Horde receives the destructive civil wars, which means characters will die either to drop purples or to show Horde villainy against itself.
The Alliance tends to keep characters, but instead is overly centralized around the Wrynns and human ones in general.
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Of course they were better off. the resolution of WC3 involved the sacrifice of the bulk of the raceâs power, including their immortality.
Although whether immortality was a good thing for the race⌠is debatable. It caused a hell of a lot of stagnation.
Nighthaven was the capital during the RTS as well.
Darnassus and Teldrassil were created between the period of the RTS and the MMORG.
To be fair, what makes a race in wow is sometimes physical, but sometimes essentially political, or based on arbitrary differences.
For instance, itâs undeniable that Tauren are a race totally distinct from Draenei. Theyâre totally physiologically different.
But the waters begin to get muddied when we look at the difference between humans and worgen, for instance. Their âpolitical factionsâ are distinct from their race, as most worgen are still humans, part of the Kingdom of Gilneas⌠but thereâs Gilneans who are not worgen, who are still a part of that political faction. The same could be said of the Kul Tirans, who have a tendency to be quite tall and stocky, but are very much still a part of the human race. The main differences between the humans of Stormwind, Kul Tiras and Gilneas are cultural. The same can be said for the High Elves and Blood Elves, who really only chose different allegiances and cultural practices based on moral alignment - the High Elves were much more conservative than their Blood Elven brethren when it came to the use of magic. The Void Elves are more debatable as theyâve got Blood Elven origins but were physiologically altered by the void ritual that nearly turned them all into ethereals.
With all that in mind, are the Forsaken a separate race to humans? Theyâve certainly got (mostly) human origins, but theyâve been physiologically altered in the vein of the worgen and void elves, making them somewhat different from their race of origin. Theyâve got a distinctly different culture to the humans of Lordaeron, and distinctly different moral values. Are they human?
My personal thinking is yes, fundamentally, they are. Theyâre humans who bear an affliction and have taken a drastically different cultural and moral path, not unlike the Sinâdorei as compared to the Quelâdorei in some ways.
But realistically I think thereâs a good argument for both sides of that particular debate.
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Pretty sure, in this case, it means: âWe let people play this.â (For clarity: Iâm just being light-hearted in this thread.)
But I think the real tragedy is how my joke only got a reply from Shernish:
Technically speaking, for many playable races in WoW, and fantasy in general, would be more accurately called species.
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I donât know, I think the way these two races dealt with the trauma of the Third War undermines your argument here.
âSinâdoreiâ was a name the high elves took up to honor the fall of other high elves; âForsakenâ was a name taken to spite and dissociate from the living.
The blood elves reclaimed and rebuilt QuelâThalas under the same banner it was founded beneath; the Forsaken completely reinvented their national identity and carried over nothing of old Lordaeron.
The blood elves lionize and strive to recapture their âglorious pastâ; the Forsaken, from the very moment of their christening, were pressured to cut off that past completely. This admittedly might change with Sylvie gone, but the Forsakenâs âwe are Lordaeronâ bit in Cata was wildly inconsistent with what came before and after.
The Sunstriders are among the blood elvesâ most celebrated heroes, and even the disgraced oneâs edicts are upheld in Silvermoon today; the Forsaken were ruled by a usurping elf who set herself up as the only Forsaken hero. Getting rid of Sylvanas without amending this was the biggest disservice they ever did to the race, but I digress.
Perhaps most notably, the blood elvesâ âredemption arcâ in TBC veered them off that darker road they began it treading, while the Forsaken didnât stop speeding down theirs until the bus crashed and they lost everything.
My point being, whatever political or ethical differences any two Thalassians might have, I donât think the cultural shift between pre and post-Third War QuelâThalas is at all comparable to what the Forsaken made of Lordaeron.
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It is pretty reasonably explained when considering that while both suffered genocide, the Blood Elves are High Elves that survived, where the Forsaken were murdered then raised into undead servitude before being freed.
Me and Aurirel liked the same post and Iâve reread it like 5 times trying to understand how this could happen
Because it isnât saying they arenât the people of Lordaeron, just that their culture fundamentally changed to a degree that High Elves who accepted the renaming did not.
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But it is also saying that the Forsaken arenât representative of Lordaeronâs legacy and that they have demonstrated practically nothing thatâs consistent with holding a Lordaeron identity, whereas the Human survivers in the Alliance are more similar to the Blood Elves in that regard. The Forsaken fundamentally rejected a Lordaeron identity and demonstrated it with their actions, while the Humans have made a concerted effort to take up Lordaeronâs identity and carry on its legacy.
The observation that the Forsaken seem to overwhelmingly motivated by spite rather than any kind of positive attachments to anything is also a good insight, and consistent with how we know undeath affects an individualâs physiology and psychology.
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