No, Tyrande told that “far too few" Night Elves were living outside of the Teldrasill, and she thinks that those refugees are all that is left. But she does not says that the number of the refugees is small.
Also Tyrande couldn’t possibly know at that moment that the fleet lead by the Shandris survived. She couldn’t possibly know that there is evacuation ongoing by the sea (and even by the air according to Teldrassil Hippogryph description) also. She couldn’t possibly see how many refugees actually are in the Stormwind by looking only into the one single window.
I already did share a pictures from the book, where we can see how many Elves there are. How crowded those places are.
It did in the Darkshores campaign.
How many died in Ashenvale and Darkshores? We know from the book that Astranaar was evacuated fully. We only know that 10 druids died there and some small amount of local guardians.
They weren’t obliterated. Its a headcanon. We only know about 4 souls that were obliterated. All the rest slowly being rescued by the heroes.
And according to the Winter Queen, all of them will be reborn in future.
We do not have information that Elune could save them. There was no such info. All that she did told is that after the tragedy she have send souls to her sister. We do not have profs that she actually could defeat entire Horde to save Night Elves…
As for the broken machine of death no one know at that point that its broken.
There was a nice thread about this here:
P.S. An your answer have nothing to do with Night Elves religion…
I guess in Elegy Book. Sylvanas have killed one wisp.
Please show me from where did you got information about 90%. Because in game there was mentioned that all the souls of those who were killed on Teldrassil have came to see Tyrande in Torghast. 4 of them were transformed to the monster. The rest of them were evacuated by us…
She still says that those Night Elves that remain are far too few: “The World Tree was more than a city. It was an entire land, home to countless innocents. How many night elves were elsewhere in Azeroth? Far too few. Now, they were all who remained of their people.”
The fleet didn’t hold any refugees, and the army was so insignificant that it couldn’t even reclaim their lands even after it arrived.
Doesn’t change anything about the fact that there are far too few left and that the Night Elves have been ended as a nation and as people.
Can you source that? Because I’m convinced that it’s nowhere stated that only a thousand died.
And the entire townfolk…
They were obliterated because they weren’t saved, and the Jailer forges souls into weapons, specifically the Night Elf souls.
This is also untrue, and why would it matter when such a small fraction of the Night Elves are reborn? They still don’t have anywhere to settle and the Horde still has Ashenvale too.
We do know that it’s directly Elune’s fault that they went to the maw and that they were obliterated, and when she found out about it, the only thing she did was make a new sigil for her sister…
I believe it was Anduin who thinks this. But he might think too few remained if even only one died. It is Anduin’s thought - and we all know how Blizzard feels about Character perspectives - it is just the view of the character, not some canon fact.
From Elegy :
The World Tree was more than a city. It was an entire land, home to countless innocents. How many night elves were elsewhere in Azeroth? Far too few. Now, they were all who remained of their people.
Sylvanas Windrunner had committed genocide.
Anduin had known she was selfish—arrogant, too. Cunning.
Driven. But he had never expected this.
It is told as Anduin’s perspective.
The OP brings up a good point - Elegy has that picture of Night Elves shoulder to shoulder in Stormwind. That picture alone dispels all your head canon.
A picture is truly worth 1000 words.
And then Elune cried a tear through her avatar, and her tears are like the all important keys of power almost every time to every mystery… but that isn’t enough for some Night Elf fans.
That is just Anduin’s opinion, man.
And Sylvanas says end them as a “nation if not a people” - and she didn’t get either. She even admits her goals were not accomplished, and she had to change her plan.
As well it shouldn’t be. They wrote a genocide that was committed for the purpose of powering up the super devil. Sylvanas, despite committing some of the most evil acts possible, is clearly being set up for some redemption.
There is no retribution, and there is no justice. The moon crying can’t make up for that. Especially not after they actively denied retribution.
Additionally to Cursewords words I will answer on this:
First of all only small fast ships came from Silitus, not entire fleet. Those small ships did not had an army on them so while they were waiting for others they started to be in use as an artillery to bombard the shore.
But anyway I’m not talking about only the war ships. There were also civilians ships that made evacuations. And here are the proofs:
1). During the burning of the Teldrasill vid you can see Alliance civilians ships at Rut’theran Village. Those ships were always there.
2). During pre-patch next week After the Burning of Teldrassil there was another week with world quests on the Darkshores. Territory was taken by the Horde, but in some places Sentinels were still fighting. But most important that at the Lor’danel coast appeared a couple of Night Elves ships with refugees and soldiers.
And later it was confirmed by table missions that those refugees later were evacuated from Lor’danel to Draenei city:
3). There is leatherworking quest with one Night Elf who told that she managed to rescue one person from Teldrasill AFTER portals were closed. The only possible way she could done that was the sea. But of course its my headcanon.
4). In the Stormwind there is a ship that was used to move civilians. After the War of the Thorns this ship is broken and currently stands on repair in the docks. So, at least one Night Elves ship took refugees even into Easter Kingdoms.
Bonus). As mentioned before, after the Burning of Teldrassil quests we got a reword Teldrassil Hippogryph. In his description it stated this:
“One of the last of the great armored hippogryphs to escape the burning of Teldrassil, it carried the last few citizens it could to safety before collapsing of exhaustion.”
-so, Night Elves also used hippogryphs to have evacuation by the air.
Those were the ships that were taken by the Horde, it’s even stated in “A Good War” that the Horde took over those ships.
But we also know that by 8.1, the Night Elves were fully defeated and wiped out in those zones with the Horde having full control of them. Those missions play before 8.1.
The Horde also had counter missions to those, for example to intercept those evacuations and kill the overseers and civilians.
This is a good ending? LOL you people have lowered your standards significantly. It’s no wonder Blizzard releases garbage like this. It’s because you people eat it right up regardless of the quality.
It is. I’m not saying that this is super mega cool ending, what I’m saying is that Night Elves managed to “get out of the water dry”. It could be much more worst:
Tyrande could become evil and die. Ysera could stay dead. Adrenweild could die. Shandris could die. Malfurion could die. Maiev could die. Night Elves people could stay dead forever in the maw. Ion could tell that there will be no new capital city instead of giving a promise that they will get. And Elune could say that she don’t care about Night Elves much, and for her they are ordinary mortals like everyone else…
Night Warrior Tyrande
Regarding this. I have seen A LOT of posts where people keep saying that revenge is good. No it is not. Just look on Sylvanas. After all the stuff that have happened with her people she was broken, miserable, living with one purpose - revenge. And that lead her to Jailor, to the bad guys team. And Tyrande almost fell into the same pit.
But she managed to overgrow this. She managed to defeat all the bad feelings inside her. She became a wise leader as she should be. Instead of spending her life on revenge, she will spend her life to restore her nation, to connect it with new Nature Realm, to make her nation stronger than ever.
She have chosen a path of the “heroes team”. And how can you people can’t understand that this makes Tyrande much much stronger as a character than Sylvanas? In their personal battle Tyrande have won!!!
Regarding this I like this post from our EU colleagues:
No, according to the book those 2 battle ships that Horde have capture were moved to the Darkshores shore to gather troops. But on the video we see Alliance ships at the Teldrasills shore.
You are cutting a lot of timelines…
BfA pre-patch took 4 weeks:
1). War of the Thorns begins in Ashenvale and in the first part of the Darkshores.
2). War ends with the Burning of the Teldrassil. Important thing here is that while watching Teldrasill burn Sylvanas gave and order to prepare to the battle for Undercity. That’s right, at this point already she knew what will going to happen and have ordered to move the army to Eastern Kingdoms.
3). Aftermath (many people forgot about the changes in Darkshores that have happened during this week) - in the last week the Horde army was gone. In Lor’danel there were some trolls troops. Lor’danel was surrounded by the Keepers of the grove that came to help. And we players had quests there.
Like remember those dying Sentinels who were reaching their dying hands toward Burning Teldrasill on the video? Such a horrible view… Well all of them did survive because we players had a quest to rescue them.
-on this vid you can see that the Horde army is gone. That a couple of Night Elves ships came. You can see Keepers of the grove which I have mentioned. You can see those 2 ships that were captured by the Horde, they still there on the South part. You can also see at 2:35 a little bit the North part of the Lor’danel where you can see those Teldrasill refugees that were evacuated by the sea, which I mention before.
4). The siege of the Undercity…
During the siege we see a lot of Night Elves soldiers there. Druids made a stels attack to kill civilians. Night Elves archers are the main rangers there. Also one of the leaders of the Alliance armies is noname Night Elf druid.
So, that means that Night Elves army also have moved from the Darkshores, chasing the Horde army.
After Undercity have been destroyed Alliance army retreated to the Stormwind, while the Horde army did the same to Orgrimmar.
The BfA started:
At the beginning of 8.0 BfA, we found out that Alliance fleet is destroyed. That is it, our army cant go back to Kalimdore. So, that means that the Horde army is in Kalimdore, while Alliance army is in Eastern Kingdoms. Then we start our campaigns to get a new fleet for the war…
In the same period we receive table missions. Including this mission where it stated that Night Elves are having evacuation from the Darkshores to Draenei location. All the table missions quests were saying that the Horde is pushing forward, while Alliance quests were saying that Night Elves are evacuating.
Some of those quest were won by the Alliance. Like the battle for the Grove of the Ancients. Because Broll Bearmantle who was fighting there during the War of the Thorns have survived.
Also Horde didn’t kill civilians during evacuation. The quest I have posted previous is the Horde one. Its a STELS mission to execute Alliance leader to create a chaos. There were no quests to actually attack on retreating Alliance forces and to kill civilians.
btw, when Darkshores are in Alliance hands, you can find such npc there:
Then 8.0.5 came out.
Tyrande comes to the Darkshores to launch Night Warrior ritual. At that point we see that Darkshores are fully conquered by the Horde, and now controlled by the Forsakens. And those Forsakens has a task to spread plague, to kill the forests - so that Night Elves sentinels WILL HAVE NO WHERE TO HIDE… So, that means that in Darkshores some Sentinels still have a Guerrilla warfare.
And later, at the end of that quest line Tyrande gave an order to Maiev to gather army. So, at that point it’s a fact that Night Elves army wasn’t destroyed.
That fact was confirmed later in 8.1 when during some Alliance invasions there were Night Elves armies. So Night Elves had enough troops to fight on the Darkshores and to send them to help Alliance in the same time. Also there were a lot of Night Elves on suicide mission.
Also in 8.2. there was a very big army of Night Elves at the gates of Orgrimmar, when we had quests to launch the siege of the Orgrimmar. So, when the war have ended Night Elves still had an army…
bruh they died for… Nothing. The convo in the cinematic is actually hilarious like it’s some dark joke. Elune goes: “I sent cascade of those dead night elves your way sis to help with the drought” and the WQ replies: “Oh… -____-” and Elune says: “damn… Anyway so Tyrande” lmao
Tyrande wanted vengeance so she performed the Night Warrior ritual for… Nothing.
Elune asks Tyrande to choose between vengeance and renewal as if the entire Night Warrior arc never happened rofl
To make things worst, turns out Elune’s goals actually aligned with Sylvanas’s actions in that Elune watched Teldrassil burn because she wanted her worshippers to fuel Ardenweald. She calls them her favourite children and watched them burn to death lol
A huge thing in game is seeing these events on screen, in game, and seeing them done well.
The burning of Teldrassil (a loss of unparalleled magnitude in game thus far) was given prime time focus.
It got an animated cinematic. It got featured in a high def, pre-rendered cinematic. It was glorified as a “win” and promoted ceaselessly, and rubbed in the faces of players who were genuinely upset (on both sides) - for months and years after the fact. In all - it was used as bait for an entire expansion, stringing players along with tease of hope that it would be avenged (something that still has yet to happen).
The reclamation of Darkshore, however, was a footnote buried at the way bottom in 2pt font.
It got a poorly animated in game cutscene which came out 2/3 of the way through the expansion, way long after the battle in Darkshore was released. Nothing changed in game after it “concluded”; there’s simply no reflection of the victory anywhere at all. Period.
Worse still, only a single Horde npc has been brought to justice; one. And even he (Nathanos) was given a clean death, something he admits to having wanted.
In the absence of in game details showing us the terms of the armistice, or even just a glimpse at how the Alliance and Horde are handling the aftermath of the war and seeking justice/reparations for the unconscionable losses suffered, one guy getting a clean death is not a satisfactory ending. Neither is Sylvanas escaping and outmaneuvering the players time and time again with terribly predictable gimmicks that somehow players haven’t learned to counter thus far.
Acknowledging that the Allies won WWII doesn’t lessen the gravity of their losses and suffering, nor make it a satisfactory ending. If we didn’t have the Nuremberg trials, or intelligence organizations hunting down, capturing, and putting on trial/killing the perpetrators, and instead just went “oh well, forgiveness and renewal”, I’d dare say that more than just a few people would be highly unsatisfied.
The Alliance didn’t even win this war either, and now players/characters are now expected to entirely give up all hope of seeking justice or vengeance because “renewal” is the only way out of this story that doesn’t treat Horde players the same way the Alliance was treated at the beginning of BFA.
I certainly don’t want Horde players to be made to suffer - I wanna be clear about that, but Alliance players need a clear cut win that makes up for what they went through. Unfortunately though, Blizzard has proven they have absolutely no interest in getting creative about how they bring about a resolution. They’re taking the same approach as they did with MoP/WoD where they avoid administering consequences and instead try to leap to the next story before anyone holds their feet to the fire about getting a decent resolution.
I haven’t seen any ending presented just yet, and I seriously doubt we’ll ever see one.
Honest to God I’m glad they’re uninvolved in this trainwreck. I can only pray new directors are in place the next time they touch my darling Forsaken.
I don’t even want to know what would happen to them with these storytellers. But that deleted guardians of the living line from their tutorial island sure gives me some worrisome ideas.
Sometimes stating quiet and fading into the woodwork is the best way to survive.
Unfortunately, I don’t think it’s an issue with any one director but rather with the way they structure the development overall. Until story takes a higher priority on the queue, I doubt we’ll see decent improvements.
My thoughts on the matter are it is clear Elune did not cause it/was trying to make the best of a bad situation.
We see the souls in Ardenweald. Generally speaking they seem to be happy. I think Elune would have hoped it would have been an attempt at killing two birds with one stone, send anima to Ardenweald while giving the souls a peaceful eternity, it didnt happened.
Now this does bring a few interesting questions it means Elune potentially has the power to circumvent the Arbiter but the pull of the Maw was clearly more powerful, why does she have such power to pierce to the realms of death? The next big questions is why didnt she know about the Maw taking every soul. And the final questions is what exactly is the Winter Queen/Elune planning to do to save the souls?
The big issue with all if 9.2 is it just adds more questions then give actual resolution. I mean compare it to BfA and Legion. At least we killed Kil’jaeden mid patch and at least “defeated” Aszhara. 9.2 does not give the same resolution. I was EXCITED when we got to mid expansion to see what would happen next. 9.2 does not do it.
It is obvious Blizzard wants to do something grand for 9.3 but at this point it is all abit trying being strung around without any answers. Heck we dont even know why the Arbiter got knocked out!
Once the update goes live next week, players will be able to see it for themselves. There are really satisfying answers that come to the fore when you play through that quest line and we get to see Tyrande have something of a resolution with that power.
I figured Sylvanas was basically their equivalent of Elune regarding how much the race’s story revolved around her, so it seems more like the forsaken got theirs upfront during all of BFA.
There won’t be a new city for a race that’s supposed to be gone canonically.
It’s stated nowhere ever. The souls are gone, they never reached Ardenweald and we aren’t even trying to save them anymore. This means that they are gone forever.
then the narrative team is