If I recall correctly, people weren’t exactly happy with the story of Mists of Pandaria during Mists of Pandaria either. Most of the same arguments were leveled: The warchief took an uncharacteristic turn into cartoonish villain territory, the Horde did terrible stuff that the Alliance had to come in and fix, certain posters on the forums using a particular race as their avatar were super into it to a troubling degree, and the Alliance ended up looking weak because it all ended with a slap on the wrist as opposed to the subjugation/destruction/dismantling/humiliation of the remaining Horde while the Horde had lost several of its A-listers in the process. Nobody was really happy.
Most of the positive feelings about the expansion’s story have come later, especially as it’s now being compared favorably with BfA.
If they could do it? Likely Sargeras, Gul’dan, Deathwing, any of the Old Gods, Azshara, Arthas, etc. They’ve all killed or helped kill thousands/millions/billions of innocent without the least bit concern for their souls. In some cases- they even end up using said souls as minions or fodder for their continued conquest.
I was annoyed that - despite Taran Zhu’s claim - the Night Elves were the ones who suffered the most from Garrosh, but from Patch 5.3 on all the Night Elves got was a cameo appearance at the Siege of Orgrimmar.
BfA was MoP 2.0 even down to that detail when Anduin and Saurfang showed up at the gates of Orgrimmar and the Army of the Black Moon was nowhere to be seen.
I absolutely hated the Alliance/Horde war and Horde civil war in MoP. But BfA somehow managed to make an aggressively more stupid and miserable version of both.
Did you miss the part of the Molten Front where you learn that the Druids of the Flame want the world to burn and joined Ragnaros because of what the Horde did to their families Ashenvale?
No, but it still doesn’t amount to what happened to the Pandaren.
Garrosh ruined part of Ashenvale and night elves died, true.
Garrosh released the essense of an Old God which completely boned the entirety of the Vale in Pandaria which resulted in the deaths of a great many Pandaren.
Sorry but, pandas got hit harder by Garrosh than night elves did.
Not that many Pandarens died in the Vale. The majority that did were Golden Lotus, which were a defensive force, not civilians, unlike Night Elf casualties in Ashenvale. The explosion and corruption also didn’t affect the main populations of the Vale, being Shrine of the Two Moons, the Shrine of the Seven Stars, and Mistfall Village, which were all left untouched. Even the Seat of Knowledge wasn’t affected by it, and it was directly in front of ground zero.
I’m sorry to you - and I love Pandaria, I used to have my Night Elf Mage have her hearthstone set to Sunsong Ranch and role played her having settled in Pandaria before Legion - but the Pandaren were not that affected in general by Garrosh, largely thanks to Operation: Shieldwall.
He did basically drain all of the water out of the vale in the process, didn’t he? That should have resulted in a mass starvation problem because the pandaren relied on that water trickling down to the valley in order to feed everyone.
Lorewalker Cho yells: Ah, you have done it. The waters are pure once more!
Lorewalker Cho yells: Can you feel their life-giving energies flow through you?
Lorewalker Cho yells: It will take much time for the Vale to heal, but you have given us hope!
We’re even getting to see the results of that healing in 8.3.
You’re forgetting about all the pandaren who died throughout Pandaria from Sha corruption. Sha corruption brought on by the war between Alliance and Horde that was brought to their shores, a war that Garrosh started.
And while it might not show it ingame as much as they should have, lore states that the Pandaren suffered more than anyone because of Garrosh’s shenanigans. You yourself rose a stink in the past about ingame representations not reflecting actual lore events after all, so while you might not get to see that many pandaren dying, it doesn’t mean it didn’t actually happen.
Taran Zhu states that. Taran Zhu can also be wrong.
And you’re forgetting about all the Night Elves that died in Ashenvale and Stonetalon, which were shown in-game. The bodies of civilians are still lying around Silverwind Refuge right now.
I don’t think anyone suffered more in the hands of Garrosh than the people of Theramore, tbh. But I guess they didn’t count for Taran Zhu because they were all dead?
Well they did had a quick and basically painless death
and then we see theramore civilians being tortured for no reason.
but of course jaina could not had her revenge and garrosh was killed by thrall.
Let’s also not forget that not only was Theramore in our timeline destroyed, but that area of land was destroyed in ALL timelines, so every timeline that had a Theramore there was also destroyed.
This idea floats around on the forums a lot, but I’ve never been able to find official confirmation of it. If you have a source, I’d be grateful if you could post a link or at least a quote.
He can also be right. He was right about Horde and Alliance and their carelessness when it came to waging war on Pandaria. He was right in his lecture to Jaina and Lorthemar about the benefits of walking away.
Considering no one tried to argue the point with him (except angry players of course, but no one argued with him in the lore), he was right about this as well.
Yes and Kor’kron soldiers still loyal to Garrosh are still hanging around in Northern Barrens as well. Does this all mean he’s still in power?
No, it just means Blizzard is lazy about updating the world to match current events (or simply lack the time or funds to update it).
Theramore certainly, however it was one settlement, while across Ashenvale and Stonetalon there were several Night Elf towns that had casualties to Garrosh’s forces.
That he was. But that was also inevitable, as the Sha containment was not sustainable, as Emperor Shaohao admitted to us. Even if the Horde and Alliance hadn’t shown up, the Sha would have been released when the Zandalari came to bring war on the Pandaren and resurrect Lei Shen.
War Crimes was an entire book covering people arguing about this.
Do you think that I think that the zones still set in the past are lore wise still exactly the same because they weren’t updated? I wasn’t sure about it before, but I am sure about it now that you have confused me for someone else, as whenever I bring up that things have not been phased to show Night Elf victories in Ashenvale and beyond that it doesn’t matter because lore wise those victories still happened even if they weren’t shown.
This is not the same as your argument, where you’re relying entirely on Taran Zhu’s word and then headcanoning in deaths to use his conclusion as your own as evidence, instead of the other way around of properly using evidence to support your conclusion. It is the same as saying that Rexxar said Jaina killed too many, so clearly there must have been something we didn’t see Jaina do, when Rexxar could just be misinformed/misinforming us.
No, the reason I bring up the bodies of the Night Elf still there in-game is because they are evidence of civilian deaths caused by Garrosh war on the Night Elves, unlike the lack of evidence of as many Pandaren killed directly by Garrosh or his forces.
I don’t really have a horse in the race of “Who suffered more?”–but I just want to point out that number of deaths is not the only way to measure suffering.