Oh yeah, and I’m certain the Tauren Players would love to have Desolace healed and turned into the rolling plains of their ancestors they once were. Give all of Ashenvale back to the NEs. Rebuild and heal Darkshore, Felwood, and Hyjal into glorious NE zones of different types. Have Winterspring return to being a NE zone, rather than a Goblin zone with a few NEs floating around.
I’m iffy on Faralas, if only because its like the only real zone that seems like the Horde could fill their lumber needs without directly pissing off the NEs. Its also pretty likely that unless the Forsaken sacrifice the majority of their remaining Racial Fantasy for Calia … they aren’t getting most of their territories back. I could easily see the Alliance picking up more than just Arathi from the EK side of this war. Gilneas, Tirisfal, Silverpine and Hillsbrad are all also likely easily on the board.
They didn’t bother to update a damn thing. This probably why the world feels smaller. It’s been a minute since I’ve touched Final Fantasy but I assume that at least you have to go to certain old areas as a part of continuing quest lines and stories. If you leveled and maxed in Vanilla and BC and didn’t create a new Kailmdor character you missed those quests.
My point is that old Azeroth is mostly forgotten since Cata and I find it hard to believe that these places can’t play a part in the future of the story.
I’m so sick of the big bads. Vanilla shined with multiple storylines big and small and there was always something to do and somewhere to travel that didn’t always involve massive rep grinding top get some reward. I miss the stories.
If you’re taking about Wolfheart…
They took everything back. The horde was pushed back behind the river, to what I assume based on the map was Splintertree Post.
I think Felwood and Feralas can serve similar purposes: show the Tauren and Night Elves teaming up.
Felwood: The unified forces purge the corruption. It’s part of the reparations for Teldrassil: the Horde helping the Kaldorei regain lost lands.
Feralas: The unified forces team up to drive the orges/nightmares/whatevers out of Feralas. The Kaldorei cede the forest to the Horde to use for lumber. Feathermoon Stronghold is turned into a druidic sanctuary, where Kaldorei druids help cultivate and sustain the forests, replenishing them as the Horde forces take what they need.
The second half of this post is the worst outcome possible for Feralas. The Horde don’t deserve to use Night Elf land to supply their war machines for the next time they invade Ashenvale.
Yeah, that should be fine. I mean, it would be Tauren territory anyway if it went to the Horde; so a mixture of both races remaining is fine.
Feralas is the key to the Horde’s lumber and fresh water issues; which was highlighted in several of the shortstories. The Druids need to be allowed to maintain and oversee the harvesting of that zone, but it is an outlet to fulfill the Horde’s resource needs without them ever touching the more traditional NE forests to the north. With Gazlowe now being leader of the cartel, and the AU Mag’har now involved, a Grimrail Railway south to Gadgetzan could also allow the Horde access to the resources of Ungoro crater too.
On top of this, we have the Vulpera being added to the Horde … and if there was one thing they could teach the residents of the Barrens and Durotar; it would be how to make the most of such unforgiving terrains. On a weird civilization-esk level, what the Horde needs to settle down is agriculture more than anything; and they would need cultivatable land to produce that agriculture. Thats were druids and shamans could come in too.
One would hope that… Such measures would signify more “teamwork” between the Horde and Alliance. It feels a lot like… placating the bullies. “We’ll help you out, so you don’t have to invade us any more!”
Additionally, there’d have to be some modicum of promises that the Horde would not use the lumber to manufacture weapons. Then, on top of the fighting the bads, the themes explored in the zones would be that of building trust after betrayal. It could be a good storyline, if done right, but that’s getting in the weeds lol
It’d be a good lesson for the elves. “The world has changed in 10,000 years. If we’re going to be the protectors of Azeroth, how does our role need to change?”
They did that EXACT thing after MoP. They made a treaty with the horde and gave them Azshara so they could have their lumber under the condition that the horde wouldn’t invade Ashenvale again.
Not only did they invade, but they also killed tens of thousands in that process.
Admittedly, a fairly good point. The “We can forgive and forget” storyline doesn’t feel as meaningful when amended with a, “BUT WE MEAN IT FOR REALSIES THIS TIME GUYS”.
Honestly, when it comes to certain territories, I really don’t care about the NEs holding them.
Azshara is one of those zones that is always brought up as tool for restitution for the Horde; but even when the zone was neutral it wasn’t really an NE territory. The message seems to be, “we would rather a zone be dominated by Naga infested ruins than ever see it used by people who need it”. I mean the Barrens are only barren because the NEs were forced to blow up 80 percent of the world’s available landmass to stop their problem they let spin wildly out of control. They were once lush Forests too. Stonetalon was once a hilly coastal territory for goodness sake.
In terms of environmental destruction, the Horde races have a long way to go to match up with the catastrophe caused by the Sundering.
The point I will always bring up in response to the “Night Elves caused the Sundering!”
Yes, Azshara and the Highborne were of the night elf race. However, they were a distinct and separate faction. After all, the armies fighting Azshara were, “The Kaldorei Resistance”. The Kaldorei faction in charge today were those that fought against Azshara.
Granted, they did orchestrate the destruction of the Well of Eternity, but, again, they were reacting to a threat. I don’t know if they knew it’d nearly destroy the world.
They were Kaldorei. They share responsibility for their queen, whether they like it or not. This is the same thing with Arthas and Humanity, and the Eradar and the Draenei. The Alliance races always get these free passes because the foster monsters, let them spin wildly out of control and wreak havoc upon the world, but they themselves aren’t monsters.
The Horde races are more direct in their atrocities certainly; but in comparison to the atrocities committed by what amounted to “Alliance Race Problems that they let fester and grow to absurd world-ending levels” … the Red Faction has a long way to go. The Eradar ended entire worlds. Arthas successfully destroyed entire civilizations. Azshara’s actions amounted to the destruction of 80 percent of the world’s landmass; and an untold amount of lives. Draenei issue; Human issue; Kaldorei issue; that were allowed to become world or universe issues.
To me, I don’t think it’s fair to conflate a race and their political entities. Especially in a monarchy setting. I don’t know if I’d call it a “free pass”, but they are definitely better off morally for it.
The difference is that even back then people rebelled against Azsharas actions and today we (including kaldorei) are even fighting against Azshara and her people while the current horde is still in full support of Sylvanas actions regarding Teldrassil. Even as a loyalist you won’t face any punishments, only if you didn’t pretend to change your mind in 8.2.5.
Do you honestly, seriously believe Night Elves don’t have a future? Do you truly think they’re going to become irrelevant in the game? Die out in the lore? You don’t think they’ll be revitalized eventually?
I don’t think that they have a future, no. Not with the current writing team that absolutely hate night elves (for whatever reason) and can’t let them have a single good thing. The current cycle is: Dramatic event for the night elves --> Ignore Night Elves --> Dramatic event --> Ignore them --> etc. so it only goes downhill.
Yeah, whatever. The fact that you think I was on the Sylvie side of the fence or that I was pro Teldrassil shows how mired in your own righteous outrage you are. Also, the Kaldorei got 3 Zones; 6 Dungeons; and 2 Raids in Legion at least loosely associated with their lore and content in some way. That is absurd. So the idea that they are going to become irrelevant when they still boast one of the healthies character rosters out of any PC race in a game that is written in increasingly hero centric ways … is ridiculous.
Most horde players absolutely loved Teldrassil and I was talking about the NPCs. Loyalists won’t face any punishments if they pretend to change their mind in 8.2.5. If they protest or something they will be in chains.
The neutral Night Elves can have some good things, the alliance night elves can’t because they’re directly opposed to the horde. How does it even make sense for any night elf to be neutral to the horde?
The Alliance night elves are pretty much screwed, the neutral ones are fine I guess.
Paint in broad strokes, it will serve you well. No, most players did not like Teldrassil. We hated it, because it meant we were getting villain batted again for the sake of the plot … and we knew exactly what that meant for us down the road. The shattering of our Faction Identity; while lipservice was spit at us to compensate. The breaking of several Racial Fantasies. The loss of more of our already pathetic roster of developed characters; while those that remain all get their characters tarnished to keep them “convenient” for the story Blizz wanted to tell.
The loyalists are also getting punished btw; just not by the Alliance. Not one of the Architects of this war on the Horde remains in a position of power in the Horde. Sylvie and Nathanos flew the coop. Saurfang is dead. Gallywix was forced to cut his losses and make tracks. There are loyalist soldiers being dragged through the streets of Orgrimmar for display. What the Faction isn’t getting is sterilized for all future stories for a group of players who can’t see beyond their own cherished racial fantasy enough to see the Horde Faction and Playerbase has had a bad go of it as well.
EDIT: Also, the NEs have Malfurion; Tyrande; Maiev; Feathermoon; and Jarod all as extremely developed A and B List characters. All of which survived this conflict intact, and poised for future stories. That is more than the MU Orc, Forsaken, and Darkspear combined btw.
I am concerned about handing over Feralas even more so with the Azerite issue to the south. If it would keep the horde out of Ashenvale permanently I’ll have to be ok with it. But the harvesting should be monitored by druids and Sentinels just as Ashenvale was prior to Wrarhgate.
This reminds me of a conversation I had a little while ago about the horde behind responsible for Theramore, Teldrassil, and Gilneas. They are. But that issue like the one you just brought up needs to be put into the correct context. The Kaldorei are technically responsible for the sundering. That was never the goal, the goal was to save the all of Azeroth and stop the legion. The sundering was an unfortunate side affect of the prior actions by Azshara and get highborne. Not all of that race was responsible for summoning the legion and they didn’t stand by and let it happen.