Timers DO FEEL BAD. I said that I don’t know how many times up above. They’re a miserable, lazy method of artificial difficulty and even if they aren’t going to be make-or-break for every run, they’re going to BE THERE for every run, telling you “oh well you could’ve been faster though, so I’m going to deduct some points.”
It’s not IMPOSSIBL to get 5 stars, and I never said that. But getting 5 stars is a lot more reliant on misc bonus dumb luck if you’re NOT acting like sweaty elitiest gogogo esports superstar
I’ve done 4 runs and seen zero chests. I did always get 1 NPC to assist/rescue though. I’ve never gotten five of the same Armament powers. The Collector bonus is to pickup 30 anima powers–in 4 solo runs, the highest I got was 18 and I didn’t skip taking a power except on the 4th run to avoid a duplicate, so this seems unachievable (at least in solo runs).
You can 4-gem the run by being methodical and ignoring the timer (0 points assumed for this part of the score). Get 100 points for %complete and get another 60 points from assorted bonuses (also ignore the Empowerment thing since it’s unreliable for score). You only need a 4-gem for progression and you hopefully you only need to do it once, since it should unlock the next layer for all your alts.
The timer was a big disincentive to me initially. My first run was only a 3-gem as I’d been told “just focus on completion”. My second run was a 5-gem as I went a bit faster, only got 86% completion, but I got a bunch of easy bonus objectives I missed previously by reviewing on wowhead.
Once the next layer is unlocked, you can go back and enjoy Torghast without any concern for score–I love that it takes less time and that they added cosmetics. I always loved the game-play loop, but it took too long for me to play it “just for fun” and there was zero reward after you got your soul ash. I hate the score to unlock the next layer (used to get 5 free deaths and now that would cost you -100 points), but I feel like I might actually do Torghast after the layer-unlock run again “just for fun” (and cosmetic collection).
The other timer that needs removed is the one preventing stealth after breaking pots. If I can immediately stealth after breaking mobs, why can’t I immediately stealth after breaking pots?
I don’t need Torghast to tell me I’m good or bad at the game. There’s raids, M+, and PvP for that.
My objection is that the game is telling me that the way I want to play it is wrong. Having a timer at all is saying that if I want to take my time and be deliberate, I’m not playing Torghast as the Devs intended it. And considering that this timer is a complete afterthought to pander to people who DIDN’T like Torghast before, that’s telling me that they don’t care about the people who DID like Torghast before.
Your head canon is insane. Do you just think everything you dont like is because of some toxic elitist bad guys? Like in a conspiracy theory? No “Hardcore” player thought that Torghast would be great with a timer, they didnt like the setup overall.
Again, head canon, claiming things that dont exist…
You need to understand that this conspiracy doesnt exist…
It’s harder than it used to be, so some will complain about a significant step-up in difficulty. I took one accidental death (typically I don’t die in Torghast) on my very first run which cost me -20 points. That’s pretty harsh compared to 9.0 where you could take 5 deaths and still unlock the next layer as long as you beat the end-boss. 5 deaths is now -100 points which makes it near impossible to get to 160 total to unlock the next layer.
Once everyone that wants to unlock layer 12 has done so, there will be a lot less complaining, but I sympathize with those complaining now as their hurdle has been set higher (plus Blizz failed to explain how to clear the new hurdle–you had to look it up on wowhead).
If its actually harder at all, which i cant really confirm, it is definetely not significant.
I mean, if youre a player who struggled with Torghast, your runs could be completly over with nothing to show for it, if you died a few times. With the current system, you can go as slow as you want, you can die, you can CC mobs, you can sneak around or not, you can do whatever. As long as you kill the final boss you will get your soul cinders and ashe. The same amount as any super hardcore pro player gets.
It helps those people not having to end their runs empty handed and it also provides a way to gradually increase your own rewards the better you get.
I cant really see how this is harder and not just complaining because people want to hate everything when they read the word “timer”…
I agree that those information should be more available and not just in third-party-sites.
I don’t think it’s the soul ash/cinders people are complaining about since the score/timer has nothing to do with that. The score is required to unlock the next layer and increase the total amount of soul cinders you can get for that week (not applicable this week, but people are upset about not being able to unlock Layer 10 for next week apparently).
I fully agree that some people are triggered by the word “timer” and are choosing to ignore that you can make 160 points to unlock the next layer while getting a zero score for time. That fact that you can get any score for time terrorizes/traumatizes them somehow, even though the time part of the score is optional as long as you meet enough bonus objectives and kill everything.
How this is harder to unlock the next layer:
Before you killed the end-boss and were allowed up to 5 deaths
Now you kill the end-boss but you need 160 points and 2 deaths pretty much prevents that if you want to ignore the “timer” part of the new required score.
2 deaths is much more stringent than 5 deaths, so it’s objectively harder than it used to be. If you couldn’t kill the end-boss before that’s still the same issue for you, so not relevant to change in difficulty.
That it definetely is. The important part, at least in my mind, is that they dont get no Cinders and Ashe at all, just maybe a bit less than someone who is just a better player. Its not barring them from aquiring the materials for their leggos, but it might take them a bit longer if they dont manage to clear all layers. And with that, i am perfectly fine. This sounds like a reasonable system and in principle like something that casuals have asked for. Doing in it their speed and eventually still getting the rewards, just slower.
Yeah, this is pretty much the problem. They retooled Torghast to appeal to people who hated the old one, alienating the people who actually liked it for what it was.
The timer doesn’t matter as much as people think. If anything, skipping content is more of a detriment than going slower. And just completing as usual still generates baseline rewards.
If there’s any negative to the new system, it’s that it’s a bit more of an issue for solo players. I’ve found the place far more fun with a group anyhow, so to me this isn’t relevant.
That’s true, but maybe you missed the point. You used to be able to unlock the next layer with up to 5 deaths and now you really can’t have more than 1 (not a problem for me personally as I got a 5-gem run on my second try, but those complaining about score/time have definitely had their bar raised).
Don’t you need a 4 or 5 gem run to unlock each level from 9 to 12, so at first for a time to get into the levels that grant any soulcinders and unlock those floors you do have to play beat the clock for a time (?spit) ?
I gave the new Torghast a try myself. I’m not a huge fan, but I did get the complete-level-8-on-every-section achievement and I completed the first layer of Twisting Corridors, so I’m not an absolute newbie who refused to do it or anything.
I find the scoring system to be frustratingly opaque. What felt like a no-problems complete full run of Layer 9 gave me a 3-diamond score, which wouldn’t be enough to move on to Layer 10, despite getting “scores” for each floor of 100%, 100% and 99%, never dying, and getting through it in 35 minutes. Why was that not good enough? Not sure. There were numbers given in multiple categories, but it’s not at all clear what the numbers should have been to get me a higher score, or even what the categories referred to.
What is “Pillager”? What is “Savior?” Freaking…don’t give things cutesy names. Just call it what it is. “Chests Opened” or “Avoided Traps” or whatever it is. It felt bad getting through it in what was an easy, no-problem, fairly speedy fashion only for the game to be like “Nope” and not really specifically tell me WHY. I was offered one chest and one NPC rescue, but was never offered more than three of the same power. I’m not sure why something that I ultimately have zero control over would affect my score.
Should I be hoarding my currencies instead of spending them? Should I have prioritized speed over killing everything? No idea, because there’s no score feedback as you go.
It reminds me a lot of the early Ember Court, where they just kind of tossed it in and let people figure it out. I guess that WoWHead is happy to make money off players writing the game’s documentation for it, but seriously, why are they allergic to putting in ten minutes of effort to slap on an in-game guide and not purposely obscuring the scoring system as you go?