New talent trees

I’m sorry my bear friend, hopefully soon! I feel like it’s possible they have split the druid tree between multiple devs, as Balance feedback seemed very reminiscent of how the warlock feedback is done. I have no actual facts but this late in the alpha cycle I’m not sure it would be easy for them to reassign one dev to balance an entire class.

Pretty sure the mage tower is going away before the release of dragonflight, the first time they brought the mage tower it was a limited time thing.

from what I understand the mage tower is a permanent thing (this time), it only remains to be seen if they are willing to bother balancing around changes DF brings.

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Pretty sure it’s not since they said it’s a permanent feature now. Remember that it was originally reintroduced as a new Timewalking feature.

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Ok nut certainly the actual rewards are going to switch, that’s more what I meant. Or else everyone will get the reward sooner or later

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Why would they? That hasn’t been said anywhere. You’re making stuff up. Blizzard doesn’t care if everyone gets the current Mage Tower rewards eventually since they’re just recolors of an old tier set.

Hey, more power to you if you think they won’t change it, but you arte a bit naive if you think they are not gonna see this as easy content to add, you just change the rewards for an older recolor every 4-5 months.

Their track record with the mage tower proves that they do not have a problem with removing content permanently

For Feral spec delete Convoke, bring back Sickle, and omega buff rip. No matter what you do convoke will always be too strong and use too many ferocious bites for a “bleed” centered feral spec.

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I’ve been thinking about this and incarn is definitely looking like a dead talent to me.

On the surface, it looks like you have a choice between incarn or convoke, but in reality it’s incarn or convoke+berserk.

When does incarn beat out convoke+berserk?

Especially now that convoke is going to be 1 min.

They should have incarn reduce the CD of itself to 1.5 mins or something to make it more competitive.

Just venting this very unpopular opinion but I am at the point where they need to admit that there are too many specs in the game to balance properly and this new Talent Tree (while desperately needed) works on paper but falls short on delivery.

Spending talent points on basic class spells does not fall into the “meaningful choices on character power”. With Class and Spec Talent tree’s having so many possible variations multiple classes are going to fall into the underpowered/overlooked and overpowered/unintentional with very little falling into the working as intended category.

This is not very MMOish but do away with the Talent Tree’s altogether and just give each spec a toolkit to work with that can be adjusted via Tier Set bonuses/Gear and utility changes via a talent system like the PvP Talent System.

It is a lot easier to adjust a Tier Set Bonus, a trinket or augmentation spell than it is to adjust a 31 point talent tree.

Balancing around tier sets is the worst game design by far. Tier sets were literally needed for some specs to even function properly. That’s terrible design and causes issues going from Raid to Raid needed to have massive swings for a specs playability. Trees are by far the easiest way to balance classes assuming you spend the time on them because you have so many knobs to tune in them instead of just doing blanket aura nerfs/buffs.

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On top of a Talent Tree, yes it would be. Too many moving parts.

And if they do decide to do that, they’ll give the community ample notice either way. You’re literally stirring the pot for no reason since there is no evidence to support your claim in the first place.

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Is there a reason we couldn’t bring back Symbiosis for the class tree as another option? I know it was a nightmare to balance for PvP but I also think they have a better way of balancing the talent for PvP now than they did back in Mists. Even Kindred Spirits would be decent to see. I don’t see anyone taking Furor and Heart of the Wild is extremely situational for 3 of the 4 specs.

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Sickle is pretty dull gameplay-wise tbh, not sure what you/others might like about it, or if its just the easiest replacement suggestion people can think of for those who dislike Convoke/Incarn. Maybe if they made it a finisher in its own right (with a CD attached) it could be cool (thereby freedom to use it, and even supplement the good side of Savage Roar gameplay where you had timings of planning Rip refresh around SR refresh, while also squeezing in Bites between the two to not overcap energy) rather than just a passive effect tied to Berserk.

Symbiosis was just a flavor ability. It has no place in modern WoW and it is also a nightmare to balance in PvE with half the skills gained being absolutely useless.

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I say they could bring Symbiosis, but using the base of Kyrian’s legendary spell (which gives stats). At least we could get some extra statistical accounts and help others. I say this because many specs that use haste will be greatly affected when starting an expansion (like Rdruid). And even if we have Lycara for it, you still don’t get enough (even with my druid in beta I have 15% haste with everything and Lycara talent).

I don’t think the balancing issue was PvE as much as it was PvP. If you raided you would put it on a Shaman so you could Tranq on the move. I also think the game has added a lot more interesting abilities since Mists. Previously they didn’t balance PvE and PvP separately (ie separate spell power coefficients, etc.). It could help address some raid utility concerns as well depending on the options you get.

I think redesigning it so maybe it gives the other player a small perma stat buff instead (maybe 1% to all secondary stats, nothing game breaking), and get you an actual ability to press might be the answer here. Kind of like a combination of Kindred Spirits and Symbiosis.

Looks like Balance could be getting Wild Mushrooms back according to datamine.

More AE options are always nice. :smile:

I really did love the concept of tier sets years ago but you’re not wrong at all. Specs being dependent on them is just terrible and others just straight up become overtuned the moment they get one.

Do a proper job of balancing them or don’t implement them at all.