I agree, I also hope that blizzard fixes the very important details that experienced druid players in general are giving (both ferals, tanks, healers and boomys) in the case of the healer it would be terrible if in order to heal decently (M+) he has to sacrifice dps (which is required or rather is required in M+) I hope blizzard doesn’t fail and makes the druid healer spend almost everything to have a medium or sustained healing against other healers (in case it happens) with talent trees that allows them to have better access to healing and dps abilities (like current metas today)
That 1min at 15% haste is with Tier set? Maybe with Oneth being meta and these new things the 100ap nerf can be justify we have to see. I just want to the playstyle to feel smooth, all these modifiers this season make the eclipse playstyle feel less restrictive and i fear we get back to the slow and restrictive eclipse
There are even base spells of the current specs that no one is going to use whether they like it or not, for example: “Ironfur” nor the druid healer, feral dps or boomy is going to use that spell, it seems unnecessary to put it there considering that it is a spell base and above not usable for the other specs (that is, you can use it but you need energy and it increases your base armor as long as you remain in bear, which will not happen with any of the 3)
I actually disagree with this point a bit. Weaving is common, particularly at high levels of play for M+. Rdrus will cast HoTs and then cat or owlweave to contribute damage. Many players take guardian affin on the live game for the damage reduction passive, but the added benefit of being a tank-lite to stabilize a pull can be nice in niche situations.
I think that these abilities should be put on the menu for players to choose as they please. Just don’t punish people by forcing them to dump resources into a spell that’s required to play their main spec.
Being able to shift in and out of different forms to adjust to the situation is a key element of druid’s class identity.
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Yeah, having the free FoE definitely helps. I just don’t know how the multidotting will scale. The FoE that we get from our tier doesn’t do that much damage, but it generates the same astral power as casting FoE normally.
On the fence on whether the 100AP tax to 10.0 pulsar is healthy or not.
There are several skills that should be the default of the druid and not talents, I feel that instead of taking the vast majority of skills and turning them into “Talents” they would have tried to add passive or new effects (a few, not that all the spells are new) only for the base druid tree and in the case of the specs for me it looks good, even if it could be improved on some points.
And yes, the rdruid plays a lot with the change of form (mostly feral or boomy) and defensively (bear) but there are spells that are very important or that are excellent for the druid in any of the specs that unfortunately are forced to come through to choose a branch that maybe they don’t want… for example “Well-Honed Instincts” which is the nowadays conduit that all druids carry for survival, but if you are boomy or if you are a healer druid that he wants to play like boomy he’s going to end up losing a lot to himself just to get to that talent/conduit.
To this day many druids choose between feral (mostly) and boomy to do dps as healers since we have to do that unfortunately (unless they lower the damage and put more mechanics for healer) and the change of form is fine but sometimes it can harm you (this last one I mean the gcd)
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It’s not just rdrus that weave, though. Virtually all druids access their other forms - most of often to either heal or do more damage.
We’re in agreement that more abilities need to be baseline, but I don’t think that every single tool from all specs should be available. That leads to bloat and issues with class balance. There is a valid case to be made for moving some talents farther up the tree, or making them more accessible.
As a blanket statement, players shouldn’t haven’t to talent into core spec abilities are that are available on live.
That’s true, even though mostly in terms of transformations by spec it would be more or less like this: Druid healer (Feral/Boomy and Bear), Druid tank (Bear and Boomy), Druid feral (Feral and Bear) and Druid Boomy (Boomy and Tank). I mean those are the most used transformations both defensively and offensively because everyone (except the healer and tank) can use regrowth (to heal). I would prefer they put the base abilities on the top/front rows so it doesn’t feel like too much of the druid’s base spells are wasted and new spells or new passive effects are left down (Like Fury or Nature’s Vigil) or in the best case scenario, remove some of the spells that we already have by default (not all) and give more space to be able to choose the ones we really need (I mean, I don’t mean that they give us access to choose all of them either)
sweet adaptive swarm will still be available. not sure why but i just like that spell.
In order to obtain the life-saving skill of Survival instincts, you must first click on Brutal Slash
Brutal Slash is a fairly low benefit skill for M+
There are 3 times of limited use, the recharge rate is too slow (about 7 seconds)
The AOE damage benefit brought by it is also extremely low (in terms of M+ DPS output)
In conclusion, Brutal Slash will drag down the entire DPS damage product.
And now Feral’s current AOE DPS damage, a large part of it comes from the 4 set bonus effect
And 10.0 doesn’t seem to be designed to increase Feral’s basic AOE damage. The current Feral really relies too much on the AOE damage brought by the 4 set bonus, which highlights the weakness and inadequacy of basic skills.
The proportion of Mordedura feroz can almost be expected, but it will be extremely high
Not good for gaming experience
Energy recovery mechanism, only Improved Tiger’s Fury, Soul of the Forest, Savage Roar (may not choose)
Omen of Clarity has been forced to limit certain skills since 7.1 or 7.2, which makes Feral feel worse. Should this be changed back to the original mechanism, maybe it will be better for the game experience?
Brutal Slash’s only advantage in team boss battles or PVP is low-energy star gathering, and the DPS benefit is not high.
The talent is placed at that node, to be honest, he does not have the place where this value should be placed.
Having to choose Brutal Slash for Survival instincts is really hard for me
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General feral tree feedback
Primarily focussing on tree structure rather than what I think about any particular talents (Sabertooth remains my number 1 issue with the tree despite my criticisms below, just delete that talent it has broken the spec for the last 2 expansions minimum please)
Capstones - Capstones on the feral tree are too weak, I think generally psychologically players tend to rush to the bottom of a tree, as you invest more points typically you’d expect additional points to be more valuable as you follow a path down. I don’t think this is really the case on the feral tree at all, in fact of the 2 capstones we know about (there’s one that’s shown but not mentioned?) one is one of the weakest points on the tree and the other is kind of just a bang average point. An additional problem with the weakness of capstones is that it kind of reduces how much thought you need to put into the opportunity cost of spending points. Because you don’t actually want to invest all the way to the bottom it allows you to spread across the tree very horizontally,
Pathing - Feral tree has drastically less pathing options than other druid specs. Particularly towards the top of the tree, once you’re committed into a line you’re kind of stuck on that line there’s not a lot of horizontality possible. When you compare it to Balance, Resto, or Guardian they all have drastically more horizontality available, particularly at the start of the tree. This Combined with a greater number of multi point travel nodes to make the feral tree feel pretty low choice, in the end it feels like you have maybe 4 points or so that are actually an option. Feels unsatisfying.
SI Placing - This contributes to the feeling of minimal choice I talked about above, because this is pretty deep on the right hand side and the feral tree has very little horizontality you kind of feel very pigeonholed into committing into the right side line which if other issues were addressed would skew the tree nonetheless, I think that this should either be moved earlier and more central or something more equivalent should be put on the left hand side. If the tree sides are balanced dps wise then right side will currently be heavily favoured due to picking up a defensive cd, where if they’re not balanced dps wise then it has the potential to cause some friction (think interrupt issue but honestly in my opinion magnified)
Berserk - I think that the build your own berserk concept is interesting, however I think it’s applied awfully for Feral, When i look at the Guardian tree it works a lot better in my opinion because the baseline function for the CD is a single point. If Guardian wants to have it’s baseline CD as they’ve had for the last expac it costs them a single point near the top of the tree (before the first gate). Feral however needs at least 4 points invested in talents (Stealth Rake, Stealth Shred, Berserk: Relentlesness, and Berserk: Jungle Stalker) in order to get what they currently already have. This is somewhat tuning related but also somewhat not, Berserk is not a strong cooldown baseline by itself, Particularly for a 3 minute CD, none of the individual berserk options feel like they stand on their own so it feels like if you pick up one of them (which I think with the fairly low choice feeling in the tree FEELS mandatory) it feels like you need to pick up at least 2 or 3 of them. This again contributes to the feeling of the tree being low choice.
Class Tree - This is somewhat less feral specific but still feral targeted due to how the class tree functions, I think the class tree is distributed pretty poorly. I think there’s too heavy of an emphasis on utility on the right hand side of the tree, Owlweaving is obviously a problem for feral that NEEDS to be addressed or it breaks the class tree entirely for feral but beyond that pretty much all of the situational utility that druid has had exists on the right hand side of the tree, with the left hand side of the tree having a stun or an aoe disorient. Innervate, Typhoon, Ursol’s, Hibernate, Cyclone, Nature’s vigil all require either moderate or HEAVY investment into the right hand side of the tree. I think some juggling around would prompt much more interesting decisions here. As an idea imagine if Furor was where Renewal was, Renewal was where Nature’s Vigil was, and Nature’s Vigil was where Furor was. I think this would both fit better and have more interesting choices in how you invest your points on the class tree
Secondary unconnected query/complaint: Does brutal slash still replace swipe? If so it’s placing is really really bad and needs addressing.
11 Likes
I already addressed that. Pls stop.
I am super bummed we are not getting sickle back. It has made M+ as feral in 9.3 the best it has ever felt for me, with the possible exception of 100% crit + BotE in 8.3.
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I think if rdruid combine IF with Furor , they can get up a decent amount of IF (armor) when u go bear for some improved short term survivability.
Its just made skills and abilities into a puzzle so everyone can feel special.
If you take a look at guardian druid talent tree youll find the right side of the tank tree to be really awkward…its all Maul…unless they buff the dmg of Maul by 3-500% its like they putting in a massive chunk of dead talents at launch ^^
Well, at least these are alpha or beta talents (I’m not sure which of the two it is) I hope they manage to fix the druid and dk talent tree with the data that people are giving them or if they think it will be like this for these two that apply in the same way to others (I say this because anything can happen and it may give better access to others and not others, but I trust that we will all be almost in the same zone of sacrificing something for something else xd)
Really wish feral could drop the brutal slash thing for pvp. I want shred to actually do meaningful damage. Even like cata tree or mop set bonus, like every leap/30 seconds you got to use ravage, maybe like a buffed version of shred
It just feels so underwhelming in pvp to spam brutal slash for only cps, and shred does no dmg either. Bleeds thankfully do osmething this expansion but idk how it will be in the next.
Feral has just had this weird playstyle that just doesnt feel great to me since like wod. ( i missed out on legion feral)
Feel like it should just be bleed damage, good burst every tigers fury, bite going back to doing okay damage n not the main dmg profile.
I dont pve so can’t speak for that
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I think the tree is overall good, but I have concerns. So far I really dislike these Choice Nodes. Part of my excitement for talent trees returning was my hope for freedom of selection. Currently, as Feral, I don’t like choosing between Moment of Clarity, Bloodtalons or Feral Frenzy because I want all of them at once. I like what all three of them add to my rotation and I don’t like having to choose one. Now I see that Feral Frenzy and Bloodtalons are competing for the same node and that’s disappointing. Bloodtalons makes me think about my rotation more, which is nice, and I wanted Frenzy to help out with maintaining Savage Roar (yes, I’m one of the weirdos who likes Savage Roar). I feel like this choice node defeats the purpose of what I’m trying to do.
This raises my concern for other specs. I’m hoping very hard that on my SV Hunter I’ll be able to take Mongoose Bite, Wildfire Infusion and Chakrams all at the same time. Will I be forced to choose between them all over again?
I’ve always hated Draught and Sabertooth. They never should have added FB into our mastery either. I think your idea of making a talent that causes FB to buff bleeds temporarily or something would be an extremely good addition, fulfilling the role of sabertooth and draught in one talent while staying true to the bleed fantasy and not oversimplifying the rotation or basically requiring tunneling.
I would also love to see the return of Iron Jaws or something similar in place of builds that buff FB. Ideally instead of a proc just give Maim a stacking buff via bleed ticks or something. Having some on-demand damage for your main kill window in pvp is really nice and making Maim hit hard instead of FB keeps our damage profile more bleed-oriented since Maim can’t be spammed.
3 Likes
The other issue with Draught functioning how it does is that Feral Frenzy is going to be overshadowed by BT due to the synergy of Draught+Circle and BT Rip. Hence why if Draught was changed to something like that, e.g. a general bleed/dot amp from Bite or otherwise, then FF could benefit too.
As it stands I see no value in taking Feral Frenzy with this tree except for PVP.
But otherwise I do like how the Apex/Draught node has great synergy with Circle, I just wish Draught was changed a bit somehow.
But I would also compromise with Draught working similar to now and work on one target only, but they change it so the effect isn’t entirely removed when dotting a second.
Or turn Draught into its own DOT that works like Serrated Bone Spike (permanent on one target) that you can swap around, but only ever 1 target. I’m not sure about this though, but I’m sure they can edit Draught in a positive way.
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You need to see someone if you are getting angry over minor things.
The issue here is every druid gets Mark of the Wild…Leader of the pack was feral only and made it exclusive. Id rather leader of the pack than mark of the wild anyday.