New Talent System, Too Many Nodes

[Zèlina-aerie-peak]

Regardless of whether or not it was awful, I actually like they tied it to spec theme over what BfA offered.

[Kaurmine-area-52]

Symbiosis is really complex, not as a player but as a developer. As a player symbiosis was just “Use it on the shaman so I can get Spiritwalker’s Grace” (I was resto). There was/is a chart with all the swaps

Which would easily be made into an addon so as a player there’s no difficulty. But developers have to tune all of those abilities and balance the classes and encounters around symbiosis existing. I feel like that would be pretty frustrating to have to do each tier but I wouldn’t be against it coming back either

[Brewa-hyjal]

Symbiosis was also heavily comp dependent. I played Guardian back then and didn’t have a Monk or DK on our raid team. So the best I could get was Lightning Shield from our Shaman.

[Felpickle-illidan]

Youre spare parts bud

[Zèlina-aerie-peak]

Symbiosis isn’t coming back, the balancing team is already a mess.

[Percuzzle-tichondrius]

You really get a sense of general chat poster IQ when they claim talent trees are overly complex. I guess having to know how to read and whether a talent will help you more in pvp or raiding is a big ask for the playerbase in this game to some people.

[Teksuo-grizzly-hills]

sounds good to me. hell i’d take a full on PoE style tree

that’s ~1344 nodes lol. ofc you only take up to ~120 of them

[Tootens-frostmourne]

I mean the majority of the people are going to google the cookie cutter build and not read half the nodes anyway…

[Kultiras-bloodscalp]

More nodes means more ways to play. I say go full-on RPG where you can make different builds around different themes like Divinity has…

Imagine if there’s like 3 different viable builds per each spec so you never quite know someone’s playstyle when you meet them.

[Wyldlock-thrall]

It’s a very complicated way to say ‘I want this, this, and this.’

Especially when the math is going to give the right direction for what content you want.

At the end of the day it’s going to be a more obnoxious way to get exactly what we have now.

That being said, some of the changes and new abilities look great. They just didn’t have to make such a web out of it.

[Calistrian-garrosh]

I love that they’re finally giving me control over some abilities. There are just some I have never and likely will never use, so now I don’t have to have them at all if I don’t want them…unless something else I want is locked behind it or something. But it’s whatever. I also like that I can have just a few AOE abilities that will reliably do decent damage while still focusing primarily on single target stuff. I have no complaints so far.

[Necrophobia-rexxar]

It creates a greater diversity of skill combinations. Won’t be as simple as going to icyveins or wowhead for the suggested leveling, raiding, or PvP setup. You’ll have to do the work yourself

[Brewa-hyjal]

@Tootens-frostmourne

I mean the majority of the people are going to google the cookie cutter build and not read half the nodes anyway…

One of the good things about the DF system is that there is no cookie cutter build that works for every scenario.

[Partyrock-shadowstrike]

The new tree struck me as trying to be a bit like PoE. They seem very convoluted and directionless. Over complication for complete needlessness.

[Wyldlock-thrall]

You don’t think people are going to find and post builds for each core situation?

If the talents are ‘that’ diverse that you need a different setup for every minute difference, then it’s a fail out of the gate.

From what I see you mostly have what we have now. It’s just more cumbersome to get there.

[Brewa-hyjal]

I’m quite sure that there will be an “optimal” build for each scenario - but there are going to be so many different scenarios, the people who can’t be bothered to read their talents are also not going to be bothered to change their loadout for every encounter.

[Ifelixl-quelthalas (Ifelixl)]

So far I don’t understand how a talent makes Druid versatile in WoW, has it been too annoying for your build of this class?

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

@Chroesire-bleeding-hollow

The reason azerite traits sucked is because they weren’t part of your class, meaning you had to constantly re-grind traits you already had. Similarly, the issue with covenants and conduits is that they weren’t part of your class. Both had the problem of being confined to a single expansion, which didn’t much room for iteration and improvement.

The new talent trees do not have those issues. They’re part of your class and you have them from the get-go with no preconditions, and nothing can take them away. They’ve expressed intent for the trees to persist through to following expansions too, which means that improvements picked up over the course of 10.x will carry forward to 11.x and beyond.

My only complaint with Azerite traits was the stupid heart levels to unlock traits.

The traits themselves were basically tier set-like bonuses. Some of the traits were literally old set bonuses.

The inner rings were kinda boring, but the outer traits were cool. They were class/spec specific and then would have a trait unique to where the item came from.

[Brewa-hyjal]

A lot of specs had really terrible spec-specific azerite traits, though. And picked pieces on the generics rather than the spec ones.

[Argorwal-ysera (Argorwal)]

Seems normal for Blizzard.

Have you seen Havoc’s 4p bonus?