Sorry if there is a thread up on this. I find this very interesting and am happy nzoth is returning. Possibly…
I’m sure this has to deal with the "Night falls. Her song will end." & "Her whispers echoes loudest of all." Whispers in Barrowknoll Cemetery as well as Xal’atath’s claims that Elune is an upstart “goddess”.
I theorize that Elune the Summer Queen hijacked the Old Gods’ Avatar Mu’sha and her Emerald Dream as well as the Naaru necessitating the creation of the Dream of Ny’alotha.
The Dream of Ny’alotha after the defeat of every Old God ends up having N’Zoth control the Avatar of the Old Gods who is released when we open the Circle of Stars which chains up Ny’alotha’s Dream.
We ultimately Re-Originate the Dream of Ny’alotha into a second Emerald Dream which ultimately leads into a series of contradictory Truths:
1.The Nightmare is Evil(because it serves the Old Gods)/The Nightmare is Good(because it opposes the Old Gods’ Unseelie Court of Fae)
2. The Dream is Good(under the control of Elune)/The Dream is Evil(under the control of Mu’sha)
3. A Thousand Truths(a thousand legitimate Timelines)/A Thousand Lies(the prophecies of the Old Gods)
4. One True Path(ignoring the Old Gods)/One False Path(following the lies of the Old Gods)
5. The Naaru are Good(cause they work against the Old Gods)/The Naaru are Evil(cause they work for the Old Gods)
6. The Void is Good(because it works against the Old Gods)/The Void is Evil(cause it works against the Old Gods)
The Old Gods are so caught up in their ideal of being the heroes they don’t realize that their Void and Nightmare is not the Void and Nightmare on the side of Good in the Prophecies.
Makes it look like the Shadow lies to itself to hide how monstrous it truly is.
When the Void and Nightmare of Order & the Light and Nature of Life oppose the Shadow and it’s Nightmare, Void, Light and Nature then the Shadow is truly on the wrong side.
Funny how the conflict went from Light vs Shadow to Life vs Shadow instead! It’s like the Light is taking all sides to the conflict!
3 Likes
“Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Our dreams. Our song.” - Knowing Presence
“Her dreams sing beneath the surface. Quiet now, but her voice will awaken the others.” Oracle Saezurah
“Her dreams sing beneath the surface.” first said by an Oracle, now said in the far distant past by a Knowing Presence, which uses the same VA as N’Zoth.
There is some interesting lore ties here, because the next line in the whisper is “Our Dreams. Our song.” and that is very similar to one of Ilgynoth’s whispers. I have long speculated that this line from Ilgynoth “From the Earth, he draws his strength. Our Earth. Our Strength.” Was possibly about Deathwing.
He Draws strength from the Earth, Neltharion was the Earthwarder. His intimate connection with Azeroth he later described as a “curse.” he expressed that he could feel her pain like his own and that was something the Old Gods promised to free him from. Many creatures, such as early trolls, dwarves and tauren were lured deep into the ground to commune with the whispers of Azeroth that called to them, thus becoming darker, more connected to the Void.
But there’s something new here and it’s a reveal about the her Dreams. I think it’s connected to the Emerald Dream. “The Vassel of Life Disguises treachery, beware the eyes of green.” - Ilgynoth reborn.
The Vassel of Life is the Emerald Dream, they are the dreams of Azeroth made manifest. Freya stumbled on the dream and noticed that it she was able to use it to reshape Azeroth. by changing the dream she was able to change the planet to remove the stain of Old God corruption.
Locus Walker in Legion tells Alleria not to listen to the whispers of the Void and shares with us a misdirection he says “The Light searches for one true path, the Void sees all paths as true.” coining the “Thouand lies.” of the Void. But that never made sense because the Void only spoke the truth.
The Fractals, it seems like truth is coming from a source, that truth is refracted down to the Oracles and that truth filters down to reality and is expressed through the Void, through whispers of the Old Gods.
"The oracles. They sang songs to their kin, and so at first I thought they were unique only in appearance. But as I drew close to one to better observe its duties, something unexpected happened.
I heard its voice.
What words did it offer? It spoke images. Riddles. Prophecies. And as they reverberated through my very core, I remembered my conversations with Irik-tu and the thousand truths they told me of.
Then it struck me.
The oracles spoke in both one truth and a thousand. Not as separate thoughts, but as one in the same instant.
Long have I scoffed at what I learned of titans, or the void lords, or demons of the Nether. I held Death’s pantheon in higher regard, but now I know that they are just as limited. Truth lies not in one direction or another, but in their intersection.The First Ones had parceled out their gifts, but gave no child all of them. No wonder these offspring bickered with such incessant jealousy. Their very nature was one of denial." - Firim in Exile Part 6
Truth lies in the intesection of the cosmos. I very profound thought. and if you bring up the Cosmic chart for WoW the central focal point where all the cosmic forces intersect is Azeroth. In BFA a Doomsday prophet herald of N’Zoth called Azeroth an “unholy syzygy of Light and Void.” a dualistic being but it is in fact the fulcrum Firim later says the whole cosmos hinges on.
“quiet now, but her voice will soon awaken the others.” If Azeroth is the convergence of the Cosmic forces and each cosmic force was granted a small fraction of the First Ones’s power, this is also hinting that Azeroth may be a First One herself and when she awakens, she will awaken the other First Ones.
1 Like
N’Zoth, returning? Are you serious?..
After escaping his prison, N’Zoth turned himself into a living thought-form and retreated into some kind of concept-space (Ny’alotha) where he attempted to overwrite baseline reality at the conceptual level with his voidy cognitohazardous logic. When we killed him with the re-origination device, we literally erased him from existence even at this vague level of ideas and concepts. There has never been a more thorough and total deletion of an entity anywhere in the entirety of popular fiction, let alone Warcraft.
Saying that N’Zoth could return is even more insane than saying Deathwing could return after being erased from all timelines. This is weapons-grade stupidity.
What would you expect from a writing team that writes via the seat of their pants and are more reactionary to how the audience views the story. Especially after the narrative disaster that was Shadowlands.
1 Like
But it was always talked about nzoth knew how events would unfold. Even is winning the end fight
Oh yeah, evey whisper has come true. This part of a much bigger arc. It’s hard to put this into words because we have only a couple pieces of a bigger picture but it seems like we are N’Zoth’s chosen Champions. It’s hinting that N’Zoth will betray his siblings. N’Zoth is an Oracle. it seems the Automa are a blueprint of the Cosmic forces. All of the cosmic forces play a roll in this bigger Purpose. It’s hard to explain estoteric concepts when Blizzard hasn’t done a good job explaining it themselves.
I am not sure N’zoth was fully removed from Azeroth. He may still be in the dagger, or at least enough of him. If Xal’atath could possess a corpse why couldn’t N’zoth? No one seems to know where that dagger even is, and if N’zoth is in it, then he likely teleported it away as its original occupant used to do.
you know im still annoyed the heart of azeroth didnt explode at the end of BFA because cthun said “your heart will explode” in vanilla
5 Likes
I mean to be fair, technically Deathwing being erased from all timelines can’t be canon anymore since there is literally an alternate murloc Deathwing in another timeline during Thaldraszus questing.
Additionally, it’s pretty easy to see Blizz going back on N’Zoth’s death since I have seen most people on the forums (and in general) agree that killing him off in the patch he finally shows up in with what might be the worst end-raid cinematic in WoW history was a terrible misuse of the character.
N’zoth predicted his own death and coordinated us to execute him. The whole battle with Wrathion stabbing him with the dagger was proof of that. His essence was absorbed and we don’t know where the blade went afterwords. We should assume he’s very much alive and very much waiting for the right moment.
2 Likes
We also kinda only killed him in a vision of the future, he may very well be still out there as a black mist, and he may be working to unlock the prisons of his brothers Yogg-Saron and C’thun before re-manifesting.
He’s not physical he’s just an essence at the moment.
1 Like
That makes sense too. Anyone who believes N’zoth the most cunning old god would allow himself to die without a backup plan in such a way seem ridiculous. I can totally see him reappear either possessing a body or as a black smoke or via the dagger Xal’atath.
He’s not dead, just inconvenienced and waiting for us his chosen people. To enact his will. He predicted everything that happened so far. We know that he would have plans within plans. That’s his whole modus operandi.
2 Likes
N’zoth won and SL was an old-god-induced mental acid trip jail.
3 Likes
If only… If they ever mention Shadowlands and N’zoth says, “Did you enjoy my dream?” We can all retroactively agree and pretend IT NEVER HAPPENED!
1 Like
They really dropped the ball with not including extra whispers or a treat for players who still have thier chosen crown from BFA
2 Likes
It’s not too far fetched.
Many speculated at the time of the expansion & patch that when Wrathion stabbed him with the Black Blade of the Empire – His ‘soul’ or essence / whatever you want to call it was absorbed into it, to be kept within a compact-travel-sized knife, shortly after leaving behind an ‘After-Image’ of his raw magnitude & power.
The above would be clever writing for an old god – One who’s generally declared the weakest of the old gods and had to play on the defence in the past, also having losing first to the Titanforged; N’Zoth learning from his mistake and applying a ‘Contingency’ plan would be a wise move.
If all such is the case - That also pave the way, opening the doors for a potential full fledged ‘Old-gods Unleashed’ expansion, with some additional features & story thrown in for variances in theme.
There will never be an expansion fully devoted to the Old Gods as the big bad, Blizzard moves too fast for that. The Old Gods aren’t even the leaders of their respective force. An equivalent expansion would be an expansion dedicated to Kil’jaeden, or the Naaru.
Legion mowed through the entire Fel cosmology in one swoop; it certainly didn’t stop at Kil’jaeden or Archminde. Shadowlands did the same for Death. Blizzard WILL involve Zerethis Ordis and the top-dogs of Arcane (if it isn’t the Titans) in Dragonflight, I sincerely promise you. If the Old Gods return in any capacity, the big bads will be the Void lords, and we’ll take them on. I’d bet my account on it. Blizzard simply isn’t going to waste an entire expansion on B-tier cosmic entities.
Every expansion, we end up taking on like five different enemies that the naive playerbase assumed would get a whole expansion. Azshara didn’t get one, the Elemental Lords didn’t get one, the Emerald Dream didn’t get one, Kil’jaeden didn’t get one, N’Zoth didn’t get one, it goes on. An Old Gods-alone expansion is. too. slow. for. Blizzard.
There is a new possibility of SL teaching them a lesson about perpetually upping the ante, so a less hypercosmic trek is feasible where it might not have been previously. Old Gods mystery is honestly one of the few things the community still enjoys delving into. There’s a whole lot of optimistic maybes needed to pave that road, but the devs and cdev have at least seemed like they’re attempting to turn over a new leaf or two since 9.3
2 Likes
Yep - Hence why I said:
Much like you said they’d burn through one concept too fast if that was the one and only theme the expansion circulated around without any other subject to correlate with the storyline.
A good way to do it, would be have a hardcore void faction and a hardcore light faction – both as threats wanting total domination, yet have a united cosmic force of a significantly smaller faction aiding us. You could have old gods, void lords, dark gods, lightspawn, Naaru and more all about waging war.
It’d be a cool concept to see a united front with the cosmologies - since its a new or at the very least a rather rare take, but it’d be rather refreshing. Imagine seeing Xal’atath and A’dal working together with the denizens of Azeroth to fight back against the tyrants of their kind.
— However, that’s all speculative as an example. How Blizzard would do it, is really anyone’s guess; but the point I was making is if they utilise clever writing they could make it work.