Incorrect. The cutscene was never implemented, not even in 8.3. If that’s all you have to rely on, as far as lore goes, the Night Elves could have won all the way back in 8.1.
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which is wrong
nope
Q: Who won in Stromgarde and Darkshore war fronts, lorewise?
A: Canonically, the Alliance wins in both. Key old alliance locations, felt right for the story.
theres is literally nothing to go on
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Yes, you don’t know what is in the treaty, so pretending the alliance “set the terms” is an extreme reach, especially here when Ion is saying no one won.
Oh, I thought I just didn’t get to that questline. Night elf victories cannot be represented in game so we don’t have anything to go on now other than the out of game question asked at a pay to view convention, which is probably better.
Yes, Stromgarde, not Arathi as you and Baal were trying to say.
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Ion saying nobody won is like saying that nobody really won in Afghanistan or Iraq even though the US & Friends obliterated all the sociopolitical infrastructure of the region.
Or like saying no side really won the World Wars or any of the various early Modern Euroopean wars that all ended in some treaty because it’s a treaty.
It’s dumb. Bad history. Bad political theory. Doesn’t make sense. Just cuz you say something doesn’t make it a political reality.
Treaties aren’t neutral. Treaties are reached not between two equal powers but via a benevolent victor giving you the loser some agency, as a treat. Treaties require a victor. A superior power.
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Nope Sylvanas is going to be redeemed and fight on our side. She didn’t do many evil things now that everyone moved on from Teldrassil or forgot about it. Basically pretending that it never happened.
Nah she’s getting the Kerrigan treatment. Antihero for a hot second then Ascends To Superior Being or something.
The alliance was basically out of troops at the start of 8.1 and they only had enough for “one final assault” and if that fails “their done”
The US wasn’t running out of troops or risking it all on one final attack. It’s actually bad history to compare this to anything like that. What we know is from that cutscene about the state of the alliance, and that at the end we had the alliance leader in Org talking about how great Saurfang is, someone who participated in several genocides, but because he was sad it was okay.
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I do have to wonder how Sylvanas fans will react if she’s been so altruistic the entire time that she’s been working to sacrifice herself for the good of Azeroth.
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Probably more like the Grom treatment. Ignoring all of her crimes so she can suddenly be friendly and on our side. I mean what evil things has she even done now that teldrassil doesn’t matter? Things like Gilneas have been forgotten long ago.
I for one welcome my Super Death Zombie Elf Waifu Goddess.
Yes and? So what if the Alliance had little troops left? Did the Horde keep what they took? Or did the Alliance retake what they lost territorywise?
Alliance won. Wasn’t the victory you want maybe, but the Horde materially lost territory they tried to claim, the king of a new ally, a bunch of people and military forces of that new ally between the Uldir drama and Alliance conquest died, on top of the Horde casualties.
Alliance regained territory, suffered one genocide of an already small population, and lost soldiers enough that they still had a force more substantial than that of the Horde in attempting to conquer Orgrimmar (again) given the Horde could not do it alone but the Alliance had enough for, as you said, “one final assault”.
Alliance won. Night Elves didn’t get justice, but that’s war, and Tyrande is gonna do something abou it.
Nah trust, Blizz is gonna ascend her to some magical death being. They only know how to write one body of stories.
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What you mean the character whose entire arc was her sacrificing herself for her people in life? Nah, she’s clearly only ever been a mustache-twirling Saturday morning cartoon villain with no nuance or depth.
(This will be the last I say on that topic because it’s impossible to discuss Sylvanas without the same “I want to kill her, wah! I wish she would just go away” comments over and over again drowning out any interesting discussion)
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If we could bring a redeemed (non insane, non villain-batted) Kael’thas back to be King of the Sin’dorei again my belf mage would become my main XD Lor’themar didn’t want to be leader in the first place, so he can go back to being a Farstrider and settle down and make interesting-looking Blood/Nightborne elf children with Thalyssra.
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We don’t know if the alliance even has Ashenvale back. The horde also didn’t lose any territory, the alliance lost an entire zone with Teldrassil (just completely gone) whereas the horde got Trisfal back.
Your whole thing seems to be based on the horde losing something. The horde never had Stromgarde, they never lost anything and we don’t know anything about the treaty or who set the terms.
The alliance was running out of troops at the start of 8.1, then in the raid they didn’t even fight the horde forces, they just fought the Zandalari while they tricked the horde forces. Then in 8.2 they needed to risk it all and combine forces with the horde to fight part of the horde. Ion saying no one won is correct, and unless they put out more information about the war and the treaty, what you are saying is just made up.
I mean she might attack Sylvanas, which would be the extent of her “doing something about it”, but as we’ve seen the night warrior power up hasn’t done much for her at all.
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then why are you acting like you know
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??? Ashenvale wasn’t??? From this xpac???
??? in ??? what??? world???
they took things and then lost them what are you talking about
??? Please just pick up any book on war history or post war political theory and the processes therein lmao
what
God you’re really really bad at concepts of post war treaties in history and practice lmao
Okay I’m done read a book bye
Oh also for this, I didn’t say that, Anduin says that in the cutscene I linked. I’ll keep linking it because people like to ignore it
I know what Ion said, no one won. He is trying to make things up and saying the alliance set the terms therefore the alliance won.
The horde took ashenvale to get to Teldrassil.
The post treaty world where no one won.
Again you are making things up about who set the terms, when we don’t know what is in the treaty or who set the terms.
The alliance trick the horde forces to go somewhere else while the alliance could just fight the Zandalari, who at the time were not part of the horde.
Your parallels to this treaty are extremely incorrect and that shows a lack of understanding of real world treaties as well as not even knowing what happened in BFA.
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The Horde just marched through Ashenvale. They did not leave occupational forces there, so they didn’t actually take Ashenvale.
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The Horde withdrew after Orgrimmar was reclaimed. They weren’t defeated in Dark Shore.
Well…I’m glad. Essentially your character is choosing ‘hey, this is where I want to go when I DO actually die’…it shouldn’t be a wishy-washy, “Hmmph! I don’t like you guys anymore, I wanna join THIS afterlife instead!” WoW is an RPG…I’m glad they’re making it more like that and people will have to actually put some thought into which one they choose for their character. Besides…if you choose Bastion and then realize say, Venthy’s abilities are better for you, you can still switch. It’s just if you decide after joining the new covenant that you want to go BACK and re-join the Kyrian that it’ll be harder. Which makes sense…you dumped them to go work for the creepy vampire faction, now you want to come crawling back to them.
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WoW is not a real RPG. They want to give us the downsides of real RPGs (losing clout with factions for screwing up, etc) without giving us the bonuses (meaningfully affecting the world through player choice, etc).
Don’t take their bait.
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