Oh my there it is
New horde should be Norde while Old horde should be Holde
2 Likes
No they aren’t. The Horde has firmly established nations and peoples with rich cultures and religions. They consciously build entire cities. Most of them obviously practice forms of agriculture. They invent and practice various philosophies and sciences. They speak complex languages and capable of learning others. They partake in mutually beneficial trade with each other and peoples outside the Horde. All signs of civilization to me.
While we may consider these acts in themselves uncivilized, civilizations can still practice them. To bring up real history and people, the Aztecs are said to have practiced human sacrifice. They were still a civilization, a rather large one. Romans and Greeks are considered great ancient civilizations, but they had many barbaric traditions, like slavery.
While of course objectively some trolls are made to partake in these things, sacrifice and cannibalism, it still reeks of victors history. “See, the trolls practice massive amounts of cannibalism and ritual sacrifice! So scary…” It all also just goes into my problems with all of WoWs lore period and how Horde races get written.
You said the reason the humans attacked the Darkspear was because of human kingdoms being sacked, something the Darkspear trolls had nothing to do with. The question was more rhetorical than anything.
Along with implications of the language players of both factions use resembling racist language*
3 Likes
Uncivilized civilizations exist. There is an couple of Old Norse sayings:
“A civilized man is more discourteous than the savage. He knows he can speak rudely without risking a broken skull.”
“Domestication is Thralldom to a wild and sovereign being. True freedom lies in barbarism.”
“Any Kingdom that separates it’s warriors from it’s scholars will have its thinking done by cowards and fighting done by fools.”
These have likely been repeated through out history by several people, but I am more familiar with them emphasizing certain Odinist philosophies.
You assume I am insult the Horde by saying they are savage. I feel like I am complimenting them. My favorite WoW race are Night Elves, and I completely subscribe to their savagery proudly.
Because there is a difference between civilization and civility.
…. When?
Which it doesn’t at all. And it is gross to even imply that players display real world tendencies of racism when discussing fantasy.
Okay.
Literally what I was responding to. Carmegeddon said humans attacked the Darkspear for no clear reason. You implied the sacking of the human kingdoms was the reason.
This is what you quoted and replied to with this :
To which I pointed out the Darkspear had nothing to do with any of that.
Nah, it most certainly can. I have seen it but I won’t be naming names bruh 
1 Like
Ohh the Kenobi sass we all know and love
Hold your guns, Allerya is not here…yet.
The shrunk version of “too much effort to keep going with this”
2 Likes
I was talking about the Old Horde because that was the context of the thread, I must have misread what Cam said or she edited it.
I have never accused someone of racism. I have accused people of advocating genocide… When people were literally advocating genocide.
I said nothing that remotely suggest that the more primitive and characteristically less civilized races of this fantasy world were in anyway inferior, or that other civilizations should be imposed on them…
No, you didn’t. The term “uncivilized race” how ever brought up things in my own mind considering the context it is often used. I didn’t really mean to imply you yourself were racist.
1 Like
The root of terms like barbaric, savage and uncivilized have roots waaaay back in the Old Roman Empire. Initially they were meant to describe people that didint speak latin and werent part of the Empire. So at the start wasn’t necessarily a slur, but with time it BECAME pejorative. so even if @Akiyass urself don’t see it as pejorative, the term itself is.
So even if you don’t mean to be a racist a**hole, its very likely that if you randomly say that, the person prolly will see you like that, because the term itself is pejorative.
Edit: You are not racist. I get it. You dont see these terms as pejorative too. I get it. Just an explanation.
4 Likes
Doesn’t primitive, when used to compare two things, inherently mean it’s inferior?
1 Like
Yes…and no.
Depends on how you put it. Primitive can mean that is WAY older, you can switch for “ancient” without losing context.
ie:
The engineering used to build that is very primitive
The engineering used to build that is very ancient
But it can be pejorative to make a comparison too.
ie:
Those guys are so primitive urgh
So at the end of the day depends on how you put it
The irony of her now being offended by being called racist is the best thing I’ve read all night thank you lol
1 Like
Not really, it depends on the context in which it is used, and history of the term. For instance, the term Heathen is something that I and many who share my religion, call themselves. Heathen was intended to be a slur against pagans, but in response, Nordic Pagans started using the slur to refer to themselves. And invaded Christian England as a “Great Heathen Army”.
Savage is another term that can be racially charged, used in referenced to native Americans as early as 1851 (By Charles Dickens), however, it started as positive term. The “Noble Savage” was a stock charater that appeared in many literary works and plays in the 17th century. It described a “Wild human”, or an outsider… Someone who does not live within the confines of western civilization, and served as a literary representation of humanities innate goodness; left uncorrupted by civilized life.
It’s an idealistic literary concept, a concept that Thrall wanted for his Horde. That is really my problem here.
I really don’t care if someone wants to call me a racist over my opinions of fictional entities. It’s a stupid thing to say, and the whole race argument regarding fantasy is a while other rabbit hole that we can dive into, which makes the accusation all the more absurd. My issue is that it was a seemingly ill placed statement that really had no relevance to the discussion at all. It was thrown out there like a free throw in basketball, in the attempt to earn points on the virtue scoreboard. Which happens a lot on this forum, even something I am accused of, case in point:
Galien, you really need a hobby.
Had Spud actually say that my views are definitively racist, and laid out clear reasons why, then at least we have something to talk about. At least that is a discussion that can be had. That’s not what happened though, it had no point, and was simply a jab with no actual substance or reason.
So we…agree? Because you basically showed how people start using terms that initially were pejorative
This is not to me right?
1 Like
You really need to play through some actual content lol
Yeah, we agree, but I also think context matters, is my point. When talking about Thrall’s idealistic view of the Horde, and the way the term Savage has been used throughout Warcraft, specifically to describe Dreanor. I think it is pretty clear that I am not using the term to say anything negative.
Well, I am talk to you, but I know you didn’t call me a racist, if that is what you mean.
That is true… BFA doesn’t have me all that motivated. I’ve been wanting to unlock Mag’har, believe it or not.
1 Like
Behold, story forum.
Peace in our time. That’s impressive
1 Like
Me thinks there might be a little bit more to it than that.
I was pointing out why I thought the use of the term “civilized race” sounded goofy as hell and how it reminded me of why certain aspects of the Alliance aesthetic, such as the Alliance being framed as made up of the “civilized” races, becomes a turn off for me. That’s all. What discussion do you deem that opinion irrelevant to?
If so it’s usually to no avail. I don’t care about a virtue scoreboard and I doubt one is kept on a WoW forum of all places.
If that’s what I wanted to do or what I fully thought, I would have said so.
I explained myself rather clearly in my opinion, I’m sorry you don’t think so.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and ask the following. Can’t we all agree that when dealing with groups as large as an entire race it’s a generally bad idea to judge the entirety of said race guilty for all time of crimes committed by a generation they are split from by thousands of years, a Gulf larger than any ocean, and given enough time said races can even become steadfast allies( trolls and blood elves)
1 Like