The kingdom of Arathor already existed and had united the other human tribes around them. They had already built their capital of Strom. The Elves had to ask them for assistance because they couldn’t beat the Amani by themselves and the humans willingly entered into the pact seeing it as mutually beneficial.
"The hundred human magi and a multitude of elven sorcerers called down the fury of the heavens and set the troll armies ablaze. The elemental fires prevented the trolls from regenerating their wounds and burned their tortured forms from the inside out. "
“As the troll armies broke and attempted to flee, Thoradin’s armies ran them down and slaughtered every last one of their soldiers”
“Thoradin saw the danger in allowing the elf civilization to fall, and agreed to an alliance. The elves would teach one hundred humans how to wield the arcane arts of magic, while the massive armies of Strom would mobilize and join the war against the trolls.”
It is actually kind of interesting, a lot of the sourced of the Troll Wars comes from in-game books. Where the Trolls are painted at the aggressors. I am not at home right now, but when I can, I am going to look back at Chronicle and see how it is worded differently. It would be a cool example of a bias retelling of history.
Yeah it was pretty much this. I’m with a digitalized version here on my laptop.
And after humans and Helfs won the battle, “Without their leader, the surviving trolls broke ranks and retreated north. The elves and humans hunted them down like game, slaughtering every Amani combatant they could find.”
To be fair, this is even by today’s standards is not a war crime. These are troll soldiers, not civilians. It is assumed that a retreating soldier is repositioning, and still engaged in combat.
The Geneva Convention of 1949 makes the distinction between retreating soldiers and withdrawing soldiers. A retreating solider is a soldier still in combat and thus a viable military target, where as a withdrawing solider is a solider who is removing him or herself from combat. As you can imagine, that distinction gets muddied in warfare.
This is of course, also taking place in a world lacking such distinctions, and likely follow a more medieval rules of engagement, which chasing down routed troops was common practice, and truth be told, I doubt we could expect anything different from the trolls, had the roles been reversed.
I bet 50 bucks that if it we were to swap positions and the trolls killed humans and elves on the run, people would be calling them bloodseeking savages, but ok.
“IN WHAT PLANET DO YOU THINK YOU ARE?”
By Yohan Stahl
And yes, when you have adrenaline pumping in your brain gets hard to see the diference. But still, they literally went after them to >>>hunt them down like game<<<
They werent killing the troll that were repositioning or something. They were straight up killing soldiers that gave up on the fight and were on the run lol
Yeah probably they’d have done the same thing. Good thing they didn’t, otherwise people around here would try to find a way to blame the Horde for this too lol
Well, they are… That’s kind of the Troll aesthetic. I wouldn’t play a Troll to play a civilized race.
But likely with a “Live to fight another day” attitude, which qualifies them as a retreating combatant, not a withdrawing combatant. Like I said, the distinction is a bit muddy.
It’s a two way street, man. Horde blames Alliance for everything, Alliance blames Horde for everything. That’s how this works. The lore is probably specifically designed that way.
If Trolls were seen killing fleeing humans, they would be classified as evil… But here is the thing about that two way street I was talking about.
Clearly, you see the Humans killing fleeing trolls as an evil act… So, isn’t that what I am talking about? That factions villainize each other for the things they do… For good reason too, because evil things happen in war.
Implying alliance players are racist isn’t really cool, especially when all that was said that Horde races are savage…
… How could anyone possibly say something so disgusting? Oh wait… the Horde calls themselves that. Noble savages an all.
i didn’t say or really imply you were racist or that alliance players are racist
i said this whole “civilized race” thing is ugly sounding to me and why the alliance aesthetic can be off putting at times to me
i’m not sure if i have ever used this term or not, i may have but i don’t recall. i have said tribal or shamanistic when references parts of the horde, but that doesn’t mean lack of civilization
The point for us is that the games story telling sides with the alliance in saying the horde are the evil ones more or less. trolls deserved it because they’re just naturally blood thirsty and evil. orcs deserve it because they’re just always demon corrupted or warmongers by nature. the races of the horde aren’t allowed any sort of empathy by the narrative unless you are some sicko who thinks it’s real cool to eat babies and stuff.
Civilized: At an advanced stage of social or cultural development; Or Well-mannered or polite.
That is all that means. And it’s honestly pretty gross that you would take something I said… Something that the Horde often says about itself, and attribute it to…
And yet, whenever an Alliance poster starts talking about the evils of the Horde, you are quick to come to it’s defense, brandishing the evils of the Alliance as your weapon. You will need to choose, does the Narrative actually display the Horde as objectively more evil than the Alliance? Or are their wrongs on both sides?
Yeah, you said you wouldn’t play a troll to play a civilized race. I asked what does that even mean? cause uh yeah that language reeks of “white man burden” to me. you seem smart enough to know what the language of a colonizing force sounds like…
and can you explain why this does not apply to trolls? who gets too define what is “advanced” btw? various troll tribes including the dark spear are shown to be radically egalitarian with regards to gender relations. we see females fulfilling all the same roles the males do… is this primitive or advanced?
where? sure, there are horde players that do. but does the horde itself ever use the term noble savage? idk
the narrative, especially of BfA, imo does display the Horde as objectively more evil, and this is a BIG problem, to me. however there are grains within the lore which us horde players can be compelled to latch onto to show there is actually more to the picture here. that some of this stuff can be interpreted as a “victors history”, especially regarding the trolls for me.
I would not consider human sacrifice and cannibalism be indicators of a civilized society…
That’s not really the point here either, because you know what the is the biggest give away that trolls are uncivilized? The very fact that the Horde itself classifies itself as the faction of noble savages… Savaging being defined as uncivilized…
For the record, I don’t think being called uncivilized is necessary an insult. Nor did I ever imply that is it the duty of the civilized races to colonize and temper these savage people. So take your white man’s burden BS out of here, and stop wasting my time with virtue signaling nonsense.
“I am Cairne, chief of the Bloodhoof tauren. You greenskins fight with both savagery and valor. I am intrigued.” - First thing Cairne says to Thrall
Not to mention that the term savage (Again, a term meaning uncivilized) was Blizzard’s defining word for WoD, and Dreanor as a whole.
The Horde is a faction of savages… It’s what they are definitively.
Then why do you insist on arguing with Alliance posters who make claims of an evil horde, if you actually agree with them?
I understand you believe it is a bigger picture, but that doesn’t change what the Horde is, now, in this moment.
No it doesn’t and even if it did that doesn’t mean they are uncivilized.
Lawl
And? This mentions nothing of being uncivilized. Saying someone fights with savagery and valor is the same as saying someone is fierce and courageous.
I think calling people uncivilized is usually insulting though, I think you know that too. When I see people act in terrible ways I tend to say things like “that’s uncivilized”. When someone uses laser blasters instead of the most noble weapon, a lightsaber? That’s uncivilized.
Because I think they cross a line and extend it to all parts of the lore, not just current events. I also argue with people who say things like “the night elves deserved it”… in fact I’d say many of the Horde posters here slander me as a traitor and troll, and I’m not talking Darkspear, because of how often I have made posts saying Sylvanas sucks and praising Baine… Why does it matter? I argue my point of view when I see something with which I disagree or is not entirely correct… like suggesting that the Horde has always been evil and that the Alliance are perfect children.
…about to, hopefully, topple the leadership primarily responsible for the crimes.
Savage: (of a person or group) primitive and uncivilized
People can take offense to it, but that does not mean it is the intention. The Horde is characteristically uncivilized, made clear by the human sacrifices and cannibalism.
Because you don’t actually disagree, which you have admitted yourself. The Horde, as it is being depicted in the current narrative, is objectively more evil and the Alliance.
This entire conversation started with this
Which has to do with… What? I am not even sure what this has to do with anything, and yet here you are making the point to say it anyway. Along with added implications that Alliance players are racist no less.
![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")