New Forums. New how to make WW better post

Classes Monk
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Here we are again having the same conversation again. Another how to make/fix WW post from your’s truly.

tl;dr: A lot of these changes are just undoing what blizzard did to the spec that put it in such a poor spot, and some are genuine improvements to the spec.

Section 1: This first section is just dedicated to fixing what blizz/the class devs messed up with the spec.

Increase BoK damage by 27% to offset the nerf in the BfA prepatch. The reason BoK was nerfed in BfA prepatch was because 2 BoKs did more damage in terms of chi use than 1 RSK. To correct that issue, buff RSK by 54%-100%.

Math wise, before the prepatch nerf, BoK and RSK worked roughly along the lines of this inequality. 2 BoK > 1 RSK

Blizzard nerfed BoK by 27% and that roughly translates to 1.46 BoK < 1 RSK.

With my proposed changes we’d see something along the lines of 2 BoK < (1.54-2) 1 RSK. Probably.

The next change is to make Good Karma baseline, and replace the missing spot in the talent tree with Healing Elixirs. Fixes the issue of WW having potato healing, while restoring Karma to its original MoP glory. And when balancing WW damage output, assume for roughly 25-50% Karma efficiency because not every boss is going to be Zek’voz who basically eats all of Karma’s absorb with an ability he uses on CD with karma.

The following change is more directed at PvP, and that’s making Fortifying Brew baseline. Karma is ridiculously easy to counter. As such, it’s rather ridiculous for WW to be forced to talent into a DR as a PvP talent, especially considering we already have to juggle 3 defensives in 3s.

The next change is beneficial to both PvP and PvE, and that’s returning baseline FoF stun. Nothing special here. Just give WW back one of its main controlling abilities for PvP and some love for M+.

Let FoF cleave for 100% again. It’s ridiculous blizzard changed FoF back to what it was like in WoD considering how hated a change it was in WoD.

Revert the changes to Energizing Elixir and replace Fist of the White Tiger with some other ability/talent because A. It’s just a rebranded Power Strikes and B. It’s an insult to have it be our Strike of the Windlord replacement. Some talents/abilities i’d replace FotWT with would be SotWL, some updated version of Chi Brew, or something like…

Drop the cost of Tiger Palm by 10 energy, so it’s 40 energy. In Legion we had artifact traits, decent tier sets, and EE not sucking to carry us through a 50 energy cost Tiger Palm. Now we have none of the above, so we can really feel blizzard slowing down WW’s rotation over the course of 2 expansions (WoD, and Legion).

Revert change to Serenity so that it lasts 8 seconds, but increases our damage output by 40%. The value in serenity was to make whatever you’re hitting crap its pants. The free chi stuff was nice but hitting someone for half their health if they weren’t prepared was what made it good.

Return Grapple Weapon as a baseline ability because A. Disarming raid bosses that used a weapon was coooool af and might help your tanks and B. It frees up a PvP talent spot.

Return the original Yu’lon’s Gift that cleared snares when WWs used Roll AND FSK, or blizzard could rip a page from the Fury Warrior play book and change Yu’lon’s Gift for WW to “Clears snares when RSK or BoK is used.”

Section 2: Now that we’re about done fixing most of the holes blizzard put in our lovely spec, we can actually get down to giving it genuine improvements.

Introduce a new PvP talent that lets ToD purge immunities. Immunities have long been the bane of WW, so it’s about time we get some form of countermeasure.

Make the TeB PvP talent not a mockery of its former self by just removing the damage reduction it puts on the monk. This change opens up the potential for Serenity + TeB as burst, and boy have i wanted to try this out since WoD, but have it not be crap because WW PvP in WoD was awful. It’d be like the equivalent of going Super Saiyan Blue and using the Kaiyo Ken.

Make Control the Mists always make Vivify crit for actual consistent healing.

Reduce WW’s minimum GCD to .75 seconds baseline. This change would speed up the pace of the spec which is beneficial in a variety of ways. Ways to do this would be to tie it into some kind of WW only Azerite trait because we already have a bunch of crappy traits.

Conclusion: That should about sum it up in terms of how to make WW better. Can’t think of much else to add to the spec that wouldn’t be directly focused on PvE or PvP.

Some of you might notice there are a lot more changes in Section 1 than there are in Section 2 of this post, and you’re not wrong. Just process what that implies for a minute.

As always leave your thoughts on the matter below. And I’m curious as to how you guys would improve WW as a spec.

Edit: Forgot a big one for Section 1. Return Nimble Brew for WW (and all monk specs i guess) baseline because A. doing certain raid/dungeon mechanics properly is for nerds, B. It used to baseline for WW and monk as a whole anyway, and C. It would do wonders for WW in PvP since we are so vulnerable to stun.

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you really have some good ideas, i really want to see the old gamestyle of ww, the debuff control of tiger palm and RSK will be match with our maestry now, bring back jab too fix some clunky gameplay issues, like when we are out of energy but have extra chi we can go with Tiger palm and BoK combo to have a continuos ability sequence.
TEB has one problem in this exp and legion, now the classes are all about insta burst, so stacking TEB is really “clunky” now (and i hate it beacause i love the TEB mechanic) because it take some time to stack a decent amount of it when other class can just inta burst you.
Bringing back expel harm and healing elixir will be really good at this moment.

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In Section 1.

What’s the goal for this change or is it just damage? Right now the difference between the two is because of the CDR on BoK and that was more gameplay driven than numerical. Why would this be better than putting more damage into Tiger Palm, Fists of Fury, or class specific azerite traits that would not be as versatile in AoE/ST like Sunrise Technique, which currently is pitiful, compared to OPS.

Then I have two things to add to the “Healing Elixirs fixes Windwalker”.

First, the example I gave yesterday in response to the Reverse Harm thread.

Each recharge of Healing Elixirs was on a 30 second timer. With Reverse Harm, even on a 10 second cool down, you heal for 24% of your health in that same time span. It’s not 15% in a single chunk but Healing Elixirs never really got “used” as much as ; one charge may cycle but generally you sat on one for the auto proc when stunned. How exactly does Healing Elixirs solve the problem of a weak vivify and/or any potential issues with just surviving damage? Is just burst self healing the answer to damage.

If Inner Strength lasted for a slightly longer duration or if Dampen Harm returned back to a previous iteration of being usable while stunned, wouldn’t those be better than the gameplay that HE created, which also did not create any potential for counterplay if you played against a monk.

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Which change are you referring to? Because there are a lot of them. If you’re referring to fixing the BfA prepatch BoK damage changes and implementing the change that should have been implemented in the first place, it’s A. Fixing something properly, and B. Giving WW more damage not tied to CDs which helps us out in aspects of both PvP an PvE.

If you’re referring to all the changes as a whole, the idea was to make WW gameplay smoother and more enjoyable which meant tweaking some damage values and returning certain iconic things to WW and extra damage would just be a positive externality for WW.

As for not tying these changes to Azerite traits… well you partially answered your own question. Why would i want to suggest a change for the betterment of WW and have it be temporary rather than make something permanent? As for the part about not putting more damage into TP and FoF, off the top of my head, i feel letting FoF cleave for 100% again is good enough and while putting more damage into TP would be nice I feel it leans too close to Rogue identity where their builders do actual damage. Personally, I like a very strong RSK because spike damage is quite handy in PvP because it’s something that can’t be healed through as well. Kind of like when a tank gets randomly one shot in Mythic raiding.

The thing with Healing Elixirs is that it doesn’t cost any resource. While you may be able to heal just about as much with the new Reverse Harm, Healing Elixirs is free. If we got healing elixirs back, we might not have to talent into self healing PvP talents that honestly shouldn’t even be PvP talents considering we had them as baseline spells before.

I agree that either of these two things were on live, they wouldn’t suck as much as talents. However, I don’t necessarily agree that this would be better than HE gameplay precisely for the reason you stated. THERE IS NO COUNTERPLAY, and a spec that has less counters in PvP is a strong spec in PvP.

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Yeah there are a lot so I was trying to go over it one thing at a time. Still adjusting to these new endless forums.

It’s not really giving Windwalker more damage not tied to cooldowns. Adding damage to non cooldown abilities doesn’t exist when your cooldown is a mimic of your primary abilities. That’s why I was trying to see what the goal here was.

Gale Burst & the SEF modifier that allows an ability to contribute 200% of it’s damage into Gale Burst if the ability is not copied by SEF is why you are pretty much guaranteed to never see your cooldowns scale relative to your base damage. The number of casts we have on our abilities is so disproportionate between the ones under the influence of damage modifiers and those that are not. The first 60 seconds of a raid you might cast a few BoK, 1 FoF, and a RSK or two depending on procs, outside of Storm, Earth, and Fire so your looking at 30% of your damage done inside SEF, 5% from melee swings, 40% from cooldowns and item effects.

The first minute of a fight is extremely dramatic and by far the most egregious but it never really changes from there either because if you look at the second minute of a fight you’ll see the same trend, 40% of the damage done from cooldowns, again in the third minute when everything lines back up you are looking at 60% of your damage done in cooldowns again. These trends are happening even with one charge of SEF and lower resources. You are never really in the driver seat. The moment you play to Windwalker strengths you’ll see even larger gaps between the two types of damage in addition to all of what I said above.

Increasing the damage of Blackout Kick is just a damage buff, it’s just as much as a band-aid fix as Azerite Trait damage, if you want to move Windwalker damage outside of cooldowns you need to hit the cooldowns not the abilities. In 8.1 you’ll see the same trend with the aura buff. That’s why I mentioned that the reason for the state that BoK:RSK exists in as it currently does was for the sake of gameplay not a numerical decision.

Better single target damage in Fist of Fury is a controlled way to bring damage outside of SEF. Better Tiger Palm damage is an option because it’s the only ability consistent inside and outside SEF. Azerite Traits are the same way since, other than Serenity and Hit Combo, we don’t really have global damage mods. It is a numbers problem but I don’t think it will be something that Blackout Kick or Rising Sun Kick can fix.

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I can see where you’re coming in terms of wanting to buff TP and FoF to move WW’s dps away from CDs because those are abilities we use around once or twice in an SEF. I am not entirely sure what you’re talking about when you mention the SEF modifier that allows an ability to contribute 200% of it’s damage into gale burst.

Regardless, i feel that the BoK and RSK changes, will ultimately pull WW dps to be less CD oriented. On average in 1 SEF, you could get at most probably 3 RSKs if you super stacked haste and with SEF’s buff it’s roughly 4 RSK worth of damage. However, if you more realistically stacked mast and vers, you’d get 2 RSKs in 1 SEF which equates to roughly 2.7 RSKs in value. The number of RSKs outside SEF far surpasses that of 3-4 and that’s not even counting the BoKs. I think that the buff to BoK is what will carry WW’s dps moving away from being CD oriented. We already use BoK very little during an SEF anyway so the damage buff will likely boost our dps outside of CDs while giving RSK a little more love out of obligation. In addition, if the cost of TP were reduced we could spam out a few more BoKs and therefore perhaps an extra FoF or RSK, all of which likely wouldn’t be in an SEF window.

Also, if ever there was something i’d add to TP (other than a cost reduction of like 10-15), it’d be to bring back Rushing Tiger Palm because that talent was amaaaaaazing. It was amazing to the point that i think it could legitimately compete with FoF stun, and it did for like the first month of Legion before blizzard removed it from the game. Either that or some effect that causes TP to cause a 20 second bleed for 10% of TP’s damage that ticks every .25 seconds, though that would strictly be for PvP reasons. I’m sure you can guess who that’s for.

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Putting the damage into an ability is not as bandaid of a fix as putting it in a azerite trait?

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It’s just a bad interaction with SEF, ToK, & Gale Burst, one of the many bugs of SEF. Normally, only during SEF, Gale Burst is 30% of damage instead of 10%.

2 RSK normally (3 in bloodlust).

8 casts in & 20 casts out: 249k done in SEF. 351k done outside of SEF. There is a pretty clear difference in strength for a gap that is so large between the # of casts and I took this from a ~4 minute log on ST without any fight downtime to let SEF recharge without a penalty. If you played in Antorus you know how easy it is for a fight to play into the strengths of SEF as well where damage is gonna scale up very quickly. Fist of Fury is the only thing I’m on the fence about, and why 100% cleave probably won’t come back anytime soon, even an at a glance comparison between buffed and non buffed casts visually show the damage scaling so quickly. I still feel like you have control on it though with such a long base cooldown.

Buffing Blackout Kick makes some sense towards the goal of less CD damage and might be a good idea but buffing Rising Sun Kick probably isn’t. With those two abilities tied into each other it ultimately leaves BoK in a spot where I don’t think its a good idea to start messing around with damage numbers.

We played around with the lower cost on TP in another thread a few weeks ago and the gameplay there didn’t look like it would be too fun. Even when I tried to model it a little better in SimC to see what the rotation and resource spending would be like it looked awful honestly.

Rarely would I agree that it’s a numbers problem when someones expectations do not meet the reality or the perceived reality of the situation. Buffing ANYTHING in the base kit would be a band-aid fix if your issue with the spec was being cooldown reliant. There will be some subtle ways to improve damage outside of it but you’ll never keep those in line with the scaling of AoE/Cleave and the general strength of SEF or Serenity in PvE.

Look at the state of PvP damage as an example because I’ll agree there that it is 100% a numbers problem and it seems that everyone else is pretty much in agreement there as well. We are getting the short end of the stick because that PvE damage is budgeted into abilities that deal reduced damage in PvP. I used that phrase but we’re not even getting the stick tbh.

That’s getting fixed to an extent in 8.1 because they are going after the damage of the cooldowns themselves (ToK specifically) but the issue with cooldown reliance still will persist because just buffing ability damage isn’t what fixes that problem.

Azerite traits just let you do it in a more interesting way than “Windwalker - All damage increased by 2”.

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Its so sad when blizzard nerfs your favorite spec !!!
Im playing BR and MW in pve content because i feel ww monk doesn’t brings nothing different to M+ and raids. Same for PVP.

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I feel like Antorus is the perfect example of why buffing BoK is a good idea. It was almost always my top damaging spell on pulls bar like Eonar or PK. It didn’t outdo RSK most of the time, and it let me crap on ppl at the drop of a hat in WPvP (though this was more due to the legendary interaction and Serenity not being crap). The only thing bad about it was the RNG and even then leggos assured that it wouldn’t always be RNG.

Also i think SEF is the reason why FoF should 100% cleave again. The fact that WW monks have to pop major CDs to keep up with other spec’s AoE that they barely have to burn anything on is ridiculous. I liked WW’s AoE in Legion, partially because it was really strong, because if we wanted to do those crazy numbers we had to burn basically everything outside of ToD. We had to burn a charge or two of SEF, EE, Xuen (though no one ever took him because Hit Combo wasn’t crap back then), etc. There was a cost to having such high damage, and usually a trade off between saving time by clearing a crap load of trash packs at once in a M+ and having no gas for a boss.

But tying the two together is perfect. If the two are tied together, if one is buffed the other will almost be required to be buffed which is just a win win for us. Both of those abilities if buffed can alter different ways our damage goes out. BoK gives us more sustained while RSK will give us a mix of sustained and burst, and spikes of damage for PvP.

While i won’t disagree that your numbers may make it look not fun, a cheaper TP is more resource to work with and a faster flow. Ultimately, we may not be able to truly test how a cheaper TP might work out for WW. However, I’m still a firm believer that a cheaper TP will do wonders for WW atm. Either that or we could get original baseline EE back and not have re-branded Power Strikes in the form of Fist of the White Tiger.

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Nothing has changed between Legion & BFA AoE damage other than the removal of what made FoF & SCK scale so high on a large number of enemies. If you liked popping cds to do a ton of damage in Legion what is different from popping cds to do a ton of damage now? The cost is the same the damage is just lower and inside a more competitive range than before. There still are not many specs that can keep up with our AoE damage in many cases and I believe in 8.1 ww is looking at a spot somewhere the top 3.

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The removal of what made FoF and SCK scale so high was pretty crappy thing for blizzard to do imo. The difference is that we burn the same to do less while other specs don’t really have to burn anything to compete with us. I could probably recite the AoE rotation for the majority of the dps specs in game and you’d find that most of them don’t or don’t have to burn major CDs to keep up with us.

To name a few off the top of my head, DHs just Eye beam and blade dance on CD and/or do that 1 min AoE CD they have to talent into even though most don’t because it’s just plain uneeded. Outlaw rogues just pop Blade Flurry and maybe Killing Spree. Sin Rogues just FoK and DoT everything. Sub Rogues just FoK and evis everything and use Secret Technique. Affy dots everything and just uses Phantom Singularity. Destro has Rain of Fire, and havoc. Demo probably Hand of Gul’Dans and Implosions. Spriest DoTs everything and I’m going to guess Shadow Crash too. BM hunters have beast cleave in addition to whatever else they have. Survival has their bombs, an butchery/carve. Marks Hunters (i can’t remember that well off the top of head) I think have trick shot and multi shot. Frost mages frozen orb and blizzard. Fire mages living bomb and flame strike. Arcane one buttons it with arcane explosion. Ferals bleed everything and swipe/brutal slash (though i don’t think brutal slash is as good for aoe anymore). Boomkin DoTs everything then mashes lunar strike until they drop star falls. UH dks just disease everything and has an ability that does an AoE burst on everything that has a disease on them. FDK just breathes on everything with a dragon. Arms Warriors just Brostorm and Sweeping Strikes. Fury Warriors just Brostorm even harder and occasionally yell things to death with Dragon Shout. And lastly, Ret pallies just wake of ashes and Divine storm + Zeal if they have it talented.

The problem is that there is competition now, and that the competition doesn’t have to do as much as we do to compete. Also somewhere in the top 3 is a big difference from irrefutable #1.

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Nearly all of those named were charges/cooldowns and not many of those melee specs can keep up with SEF on a pull to pull basis aside from DH and maybe the rogue specs but I think it might only be Assassination. Many of what was named are also talented abilities that take away from another strength those specs have while ours are baseline. This is also before SCK / WDP is taken into consideration.

Competition is also not a problem? :thinking:

Nothing in this game is really difficult to pull off anymore so I don’t agree with that arguement. Whether it is managing SEF A.I , or Mastery, it’s really hard to argue that those are anymore difficult than positioning for Blade Dance & using Eye Beam, managing your resources for sweeping strike, or keeping up on Dots.

We are a long way from “Windwalker was one of the harder specs to play” in WoW.

M+ is one place where I’d prefer to see damage go up (lower classes buffed to match the top classes) because the better the damage, the higher the key, the more entertaining it is to watch & play, in my opinion.

To clarify: I’d rather see a stronger mark of the crane but not one that requires more stacks to achieve that damage.

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I enjoyed doing a high key because the enemies lived long enough for me to use all my cooldowns, all my resources, and do the most damage I possibly could. As I got stronger the content still felt more rewarding each time as we pushed higher.

My biggest disappointment now is that I don’t feel like I hit that point where I melt the trash anymore. Windwalker feels like it’s built to do a +10 and then stop. I don’t get that feeling like I’m progressing to the point where I’m too strong to run low keys and now I’ve gotta push higher and higher to get the 100% out of my class. I don’t get the same enjoyment in knowing that I can scale higher with stronger enemies.

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While this may or may not be true for some cases, it should be noted that a lot of these charges are reasonably short CD and aren’t integral for single target. And, as i said, that was off the top of my head not going into heavy detail. Though, that’s not my beef with this topic. My beef is that we have to burn crucial CDs that we also need in single target just to be on par and sometimes better while everyone else doesn’t.

As for competition, from my point of view it is a problem. Because if there is competition, there is generally uncertainty or some form of RNG. Specs that are desired generally have less uncertainty and can accomplish certain tasks without fail (See rogues cheesing everything with cloak). So if i had to choose between WW possibly being in top 3 of AoE after burning key CDs or WW being irrefutably the best in AoE by an order of magnitude after burning key CDs, I’d take the latter.

While I don’t disagree that nothing in this game is difficult to pull off anymore, that was not my point. My point is that we burn more crucial CDs than most if not all of the other specs only to “maybe” be good. DHs and DoT classes don’t lose a lot for future pulls if they just do their AoE, WW does. We have to choose between either this pack or these adds die a little faster or if the boss dies a little faster rather than what it was like in Legion where it as these packs are gonna be gone in a few seconds, but i won’t have gas for the boss.

As for your statement about MotC, I partially agree. I would be fine with the cape of 5 if it was still a 40 or 50% damage buff for SCK a stack. Though, if i had to choose between this and 100% FoF cleave, I’d take 100% FoF cleave most of the time.

It appears we share the same sentiment for the most part. Though, i liked melting trash pack face because it meant I could carry hard and gearing alts wouldn’t be like pulling teeth. The gold from sells is also nice.

As for the progression thing, it feels like we stop earlier than a +10, but TBH, it’s been a while since I’ve done a 9 and took time to observe how fast trash died. Which is why i find it mildly confusing that you don’t want more “drastic” changes and buffs to WW.

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Then referring back to what I said above;

There is very little chance we’ll see WW aoe return to where it was at. It only takes 30 seconds to look back on the last MDI, or any of the Raider.IO Groups from legion that were above a 25, and to realize how much of a gap there was between Windwalker and the rest of the game.

Doing great damage without a reliance in cooldowns to do it is something that is certainly achievable though. The class devs just need to consider what windwalkers strengths are, what they could be, and how to get that while keeping the perception good.

Doing 75% of your damage with cooldowns in the first minute and then watching the meters average out 40k & 10k until your CDS are back up gives people the wrong perceptions. Even though everyone else is doing 10k damage it looks like Windwalkers can’t sustain there own DPS outside of CDS. That is where I, personally, see a lot of the negative opinions come from when I see other ww in game.

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Note: Had to edit your quote a little because when i tried to quote you above, i get an error saying i can’t put a link in my post.

Which is precisely what my changes are aimed to achieve. FoF cleaving for 100% is a decent buff to our AoE without changing our single target output and doesn’t make our AoE as strong as it was in Legion. Buffing BoK adds more damage outside of our CDs and the resultant buff to RSK to maintain the 2 BoK < 1 RSK inequality is just a positive externality to maintain the status quo between the two spells. The reduction in the cost of TP and changes to EE give us more resources to work with, which will likely equate to more damage outside of CDs.

Yea, we can see that with sin rogues and DH. As for the class devs considering what WW’s strengths are/what they could be, they’ve never really gave us a solid answer especially given all the changes the spec as a whole has gone through since its inception in the game and the lack of communication between the playerbase and the devs.

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I was asked that question by one of the devs at Blizzcon but didn’t really have a great answer. Starting in MoP beta we had [this strength], and then in MoP release it changed, and then in Throne of Thunder we got SEF and it totally changed again, then again in Siege, and Highmaul with the buff to Torpedo, and it’s like every patch up until now we’ve had a strength that’s constantly changed.

I’m not really sure what I think about WW strengths anymore leading up too this point I kind of just continue to play with everything they’re willing to give.

The only time additions are added to the spec that I really consider to be the “true windwalker” playstyle are when we can take a combination of abilities, both damage and movement / utility, that do good cleave / multi target damage while allowing us the freedom to use our mobility to set them up for ourselves.

An example would be a Healer + DPS in 2s. If the enemy healer wants to run from you and the enemy DPS wants to hit you. Being able to have Disable on that healer and still freely moving towards him because of Windwalking is something I think aligns with “windwalker”. Having the mobility tools like FSK for uptime & that double slow so if something like - Healer stuns you and runs off in the distance and the DPS follows him so they both can heal up or something, you FSK back and re-slow them both. That is something that aligns really well with what I think of the spec. Then of course the freedom to use the mobility as we see fit.

Everything we have gotten lately has felt like just some extra ability to use that serves some purpose. Even Strike of the Windlord was not really, monk like, to me and while it did serve a purpose the moment the offhand hit split damage it was like “Ok, this is counterproductive to how I play”.

It was not really to the same magnitude of abilities that hit targets in lines , or a cone, or deal damage like Chi Torpedo did. As terrible as Chi Explosion was to balance , and the super broken Chi Burst -> Chi Torpedo -> ChiX/FoF burst damage, or as unpopular as Spinning Fire Blossom may have seemed, all of these things were what I expected to be doing.

The last person to talk about Windwalker anything I believe was Holinka, in a very broad way, in relation to the “mobility tax” where we were used as examples, along with hunters.

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I don’t believe in the mobility tax because DHs, Fury Warriors, and Rogues exist.

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Mobility tax was more along the lines of a specializations Mobility, Utility, and Defensive’s. The idea in a nutshell was that not every specialization will join the game with an equal amount of “money” and that some abilities will cost more than others. As the game progressed you had this conceptual economy, internally , that determined how much of that currency you would aquire over time. This is why an ability like Roll, or Fel Rush, has a charge system while Flying Serpent Kick, and Heroic Leap, had only a cooldown but also a more defining secondary effect.

This “hybrid tax” or “mobility tax” in relation to the popular opinion that if a specialization can heal, or has high uptime, or some other type of utility that it was a tax on the damage they can deal. True to some extent due to design but really the driving factor is only gameplay.