New Dungeon Affixes Reactions

My thoughts in no particular order:

This’ll make DHs required past a certain key level since chaos damage applies to all magic types and brand will increase all magic dmg regardless of type. Basically, VDH will continue to be the meta tank and stacking multiple havocs may even be possible.

30% haste is also a LOT. That’s a permanent bloodlust on trash. This will make interrupting priority casts significantly harder unless tuned (either haste % or cast times).

Could you please specify if Thorned will be a flat damage as implied by the referenced spell or will do % damage reflected based on the amount of damage done per attack?

I’m also paying keen attention to your specific wording, “retiring for Season 1”. Does this mean those retired affixes could return?

You’ll have seen by now, many people (including popular youtubers, MDI players, etc) asking how bolstering and sanguine were kept as they are by far the most hated affixes. I’m glad afflicted and incorporeal are gone specifically, while storming was more annoying than anything. Volcanic wasn’t really an issue as long as you had a melee dps in the group. Personally I would’ve swapped volcanic/storming and bolstering/sanguine (especially when they will interact with the new mechanics). Raging will still be a bit of an issue with the interactions of the new affixes but at least you can priority single target down mobs if necessary vs bolstering which affects all mobs.

Could you please elaborate on how many mobs per pack will be affected by the new affixes? Will be it be like the BFA affixes where it’s a single mob per pack or will it be more/all of them?


Yeah, I was wondering about a few of the things you mentioned as well.

They do say we will be able to gear and optimize for it, but I wonder how much control we will have. In order to optimize, will we have to have multiple sets of gear, or at least trinkets, depending on the current affixes? And I know it’s listed as a bonus, and honestly likely won’t matter outside some higher keys, but we all know things filter down when it comes to the meta and strats.

I like that new things are being tried, but I think the bonus damage feels a bit too much like incorporeal/afflicted. Some classes/specs just cannot interact with the affix because they aren’t built for it. If the damage bonuses were shifted to things a lot of classes have access to but may not necessarily take, that might encourage build diversity and talent swaps from week to week.

  • Maybe mobs take increased damage while being slowed or rooted. Some AoE things like totems and frost mages may require some balancing, but things like hamstring/disable/shadowflame (I don’t think I’ve ever taken that on my warlock for pve) might be abilities that players pick up for the week.
  • Maybe kicking a spell makes that caster take extra damage for a few seconds. It could be paired with the boosted magic damage affix.
  • Maybe loss of control effects like blind or fear make them take extra damage for a few seconds. Even if the effect breaks immediately due to incoming damage, the debuff could persist for a few seconds.

I’m just trying to think of ideas that gives players the choice of what talents to bring instead of it mostly being outside of their control due to their damage profile.

To not make my own whole post:

  • In terms of Retiring/Staying old affixes, as one of the higher end key pushers in the council -

The affixes that are staying are in my opinion some of the worst feeling to have kept. Many if not all affixes on rotation now are purely tank/healer related with some of the most awful feeling timer eating interactions possible. (goodbye Spiteful <3) Even essentially all of the new affixes are purely tank/healer issue, but I’ll touch on that later.
Sanguine and Bolstering essentially are the ones I believe should be completely done in, not just retired with a potential return, they should be gone as some of the most ‘have to be gutted repeatedly to be even okay’ over the years affixes. I believe in exchange not many would oppose the return of Entangling/Volcanic in their stead.

  • In terms of new affixes coming, just from what’s written -

I see the vision, I agree with the vision, I don’t agree with execution. I believe I saw a tweet yesterday wondering why this is not just put together as some form of seasonal where 2 of these are active at a time. I believe it’s not too late to take this idea and condense it in to one semi rotation affix the way Awakened swapped pillars from week to week. (With of course a bit of down tuning to the numbers because I already foresee some being egregious)
As is stands right now, the punishment for this affix I can already see is far worse than any positive to meta fluctuation that could arise. I can already see that abom before Stitchflesh on a Fort Reckless week being simply un-livable on a FAR lower key level than any other comparable week.
Along side this, I believe as long as Bolstering stands… these affixes being some mobs die slightly faster with the right classes is a pretty unintended terrible interaction. Thinking to it now with all the obligate cleave/aoe many classes have this could prove even more difficult to manage than first considered.

  • Extra ramble - what I’d prefer a new kiss/curse affix be + extra thoughts

Honestly I’d prefer a Nothing/Curse affix. Something along the lines of “every 20-30 sec a random mob will start casting something crazy and you have to stop it or you die.”
I can see that being linked to Incorp for example, however I’d like to make distinction that I’d prefer the affix be tied to existing mobs, given sometimes Incorp/Afflicted etc spawn in quite simply insane spots for the typical camera POV.
Realistically I’d prefer just Fort/Tyran and a seasonal (a kind as I stated above with condensing) that is far easier to go in and balance. I love keys and I for the most part do enjoy the challenge of varying affixes, however it seems clear that it is difficult to keep so many balanced. I’ve seen seasons where the key level difference between weeks is a consistent 1 at most, I’ve seen seasons where it’s 2-3 no contest, and this is what I’d love to be prio’d by Blizzard to be able to rectify.

Thank you, I’ll probably have more to say eventually since M+ has been a frequent past time of mine. I hope my point comes off clearly, and I appreciate any time spent reading :slight_smile:

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I could not agree more. I want to play the dungeons, not the affixes. Having weeks where I actively do not want to interact with m+ due to certain combinations of affixes shouldn’t be a thing. I’m surprised Blizzard hasn’t seen this.


As far as the new affixes are concerned: I dont think Thorned will be a major issue depending on the tuning but I have concerns about the other three. Since these affixes only apply to trash, I’m specifically thinking about Fort weeks.

Reckless: combining this with Fort and raging/bolstering will lead to Tanks having to kite which tanks dont love. Otherwise the likelihood of getting wrecked is high. Also mobs like the abominations in Necrotic Wake which already truck hard on Fort weeks will become unlivable especially if combined with raging.

Attuned/Focused: With only so many interrupts, stuns, and CCs (these will be necessary for some mob/affix combos again I guarantee) mob groups with multiple casters will be a bear. Once again using the Necrotic Wake example, the trash before the first two bosses will be problematic. Trying to coordinate an interrupt/stun/displace rotation in a pug with no comms will suck.

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I’d like to start with that for me my preferred format has been what doti hardmode became in s4. A dungeon without a timer where bosses are the main challenge and have additional abilities compared to a normal M+ and pretty much feels like a 5 man raid.

Now going in M+, I’m personally a fan of affixes or dungeons trying to make it so certain class/specs rotate in the meta so if the goal from the damage amp affixes is that I think it can be interesting. But like many people mentioned it doesn’t work if chaos damage is amp on all weeks. I like that the amp damage seems mostly to want to affect the perception of the meta (as the damage amp might account for up to 5% of your damage at best) to give everyone and even less played spec some reason to want to try them as the meta in m+ often means you’ll mostly only play one spec of your class or one build.

As far as the meta go I feel the balance is probably a bigger issue since aug evoker has been added and that veng dh didn’t really get tuned down enough. We still have to see how TWW will change stuff but augmentation evoker also can still shine every week as it can buff someone that can take advantage of the amp damage. I’ve also made a thread about this but current aoe cap/softcap for many specs just doesn’t feel fair in M+ when trash is that much relevant.

As far as the affixes topic go I feel every week I see a different topic saying the current affixes are the worse. Definitely understand that the weekly affixes model is there to switch it up every week but that seems more a negative for many people. I personally liked the seasonal affixes concept even if it could be hit or miss as I like the immersion it could have to have some interaction with the big bad in M+. I don’t know what is the solution for this but for me hard mode dungeons solve all this and like I said earlier is my preferred mode for dungeons.


Base damage profiles on certain schools e.g class/specs is in my opinion a terrible idea. Even if it is a small boost and/or it can be solved by different items/talents to achieve the damage buffs it is not going to show in the looking for group tool where certain specs/classes are already favored over others. This will make pugging worse than it is. A better way would be to give a flat damage boost across the board to certain mob types that varied week to week. It can even be so that routes can be based on it and favor experimentation from week to week. Bring the player not the certain class would make for a better pug life.

This however wont affect the premade teams much as they will come up with the most optimal route/spec/class combo anyway. But far from everyone has the benefit of having an active team/guild to run keys with. Designing the affixes to include more specs/classes that can deal with/benefit from them would make a better experience for all.


Unironically cries in enh shaman, hard capped 6 targets makes it feel horrific in such trash centric metas.


I find the 15 second death penalty to be overally harsh with the addition of plus 10 being tyrannical and fortified. One or the other would have been fine on plus 10s, but both seems that semi-hardcore players will be shut out of content.

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Will be interesting to see the tuning and effect on dungeon timers with these changes.

If Fort and Tyr are going to be active at the same time, why even have them? At this point you are just bumping the level of the key without actually bumping the level of the key.

Mostly solid changes all around, but that one… that one is a big miss. Maybe its time Fort and Tyr were retired for better thought out difficulty ramps that arent “Well your +10 is really a +11” and so forth.


I think, bar the potential that -15sec timer could cause a lot of toxicity, these changes are absolutely amazing. People don’t seem to realize that yeah absolutely the Guile could make it a bit of a jarring stepping stone (possibly pending adjustment for smoothing the curve) all this does is cap out the highest keys possible a little earlier. I think capping slightly earlier and having it be relatively consistent to be able to blanket balance is really good for higher end.

Hopefully with this, though, it becomes a bit clearer how toxic many bosses feel with the Tyrannical buff causing them to last far longer than what feels good to play.

For efficiency in feedback collection let’s move comments under the post Kaivax posted. :slight_smile: