To expand on what I wrote, I think Survival is an interesting case for the discussion. When you look at the current talent choices, only passives are taken and they are the source of any kind of complexity the spec with the core being extremely limited.
Baseline you have a single charge of KC to recover some focus, you maintain serpent sting, throw your single bomb on cooldown and then dump whatever extra focus you have into raptor strike. And even if you added Steel Trap, Flanking Strike and Chakrams to the mix, I doubt anyone would qualify that as harder to play at all.
But if you add the passive talents you now have things like
- Spreading Kill Command to different targets to maximize the attack speed bonus
- Managing charges on Kill Command and Wildfire Bombs
- Wildfire Infusion alters your rotation depending on the colors
- Optimising your Coordinated Assault window to extend it as much as possible with Birds of Prey
- Mongoose Bite is kind of a middle ground as it replaces Raptor Strike. So not really an extra button, but fundamentally changes how your spender works.
So basically, since those talents are always taken, theyâve become synonymous with the perceived complexity of the spec.
Well, Spitting Cobra is also affected by the pet aura from Animal Companion that makes it do 35% less damage. Even after a massive buff a couple patches ago, itâs a garbage talent.
But yes, youâre correct about how some passive talents change the rotation.
Thibledorf, you should probably just stop before you embarrass yourself further. Most of us here have/play mukltiple different toon and specs. I, for example, play hunter (MM and BM), Druid (Guardian, Boomkin) Mage (Frost) and Warlock (Aff and Demo) in Shadowlands. None are particularly complex, but since I donât play Shadow priest this tier i decided to reach out and ask guildies who do. One of them laughed, another asked to get some of whatever you are smoking, and a third agreed with you that BM is easymode compared to Shadow priest (full disclosure this Shadow priest plays holy in raid and only plays SP in M+). interestingly enough, as we weere talking our two rogues piped up and said the Shadow priest rotation was âstooopid easyâ compared to theirs while a Dh chimed in to say his was in fact the hardest since he wore out his âEyebeam keyâ from smashing it so much. I swear, wow people problems are the worst
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Thekk, what you are describing is the natural complexity inherent with playing a spec optimally. The base rotation for a hypothetical spec is something allong the lines of 1,1,1,2,3,4,1,1,1,2,3,5⌠where 1 is the classic builder spell and 2,3,4 and 5 are spenders with significant cds. When you play it optimally, you may have to tab target between each 1 cast, or delay the cast of 4 and 5 to fit in a burst window. There are many variations or flavors that can occur, but every spec has this type of complexity for success including BM hunter. The key take home though is the base rotation is still just 5 buttons. Another spec, because of talent choices, may get a rotation the looks like 6,7,1,1,1,2,3,4,1,6,7, 1,1,1, 2,3,5 which maybe talents (6,7), builders (1) and spender (2,3,4,5). When you look at the two roations clearly the second one is more complex (i.e more button presses) than the first, but that shouldnât automatically mean that it does more damage given that this is a design issue and not a playstyle issue.
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I personally do not think SP is that hard these days⌠the original void form (legion) priest was much more difficult (getting consistently to 40+ stacks of VF etc) and mistakes/mechanics would nullify 1+ minutes of ramp⌠when S2M was a thing it was wild and really felt like playing a piano.
The thing about the current and former shadow priest is it takes very specific gear/stats to start to feel good. A new 60 on a SP in blues/mythic0 gear is going to feel and perform terrible compared to a BM hunter in all content.
Whereas on my hunter (and yes this goes for fury war/demon hunter etc) alt I can slap any gear on him mash 3 keys and do âdecentâ. The barrier to entry on SP is a lot more to work on. I think thatâs why BM hunters get called EZ⌠and that is what I meant by it. there is definitely nuance with BM hunter at the top end I will concede.
I mean heck a fury warrior can be a fresh 60, grab a Kyrian leggo and do 15k+ on AoE packs by simply pressing two buttons once.
This is one of the dumbest posts to grace this forum, and that is saying something. BM has been the beginner spec for 17 years, and it still is. Itâs one of the main reasons why it is the most played spec in the game. Please point your guildies to the shadow priest discord and post that drivel there. We could all use a good laugh at the stupidity it takes to make that claim.
By the by, since you lack reading comprehension, I never said shadow was complex. The point, since you need it laid out for you, is that itâs more complex than BM. Iâll stick with the 17 years of BM being the easy spec it is and forgo the word of someone who hasnât even cleared normal yet.
Hunter is the most played class, but Balance Druid is the most played spec. Hunter is overpopulated because Blizzard listed it as the best class for solo play. I donât remember them ever listing classes by how easy they should be to play.
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Oh Thible, Thible, ThibleâŚperception is not always reality otherwise Donnie would still be President and CoVID would be no worrse than the flu. There are countless people who will tell you that hunter, along with warlock, is a good entry spec because pet tanking is a thing. Some eill even tell you that they chose hunter for the class aesetics which apparently appeals to folks. But i guarantee you no one chose hunter with the belief or understanding that they would be penalized later on for their choices. As for other Shadow priest agreeing with you and disagreeing with my friends, it happens. My friends arenât the brightest. But that being said, it also may be that its just you who find Shadow priest more difficult because well you arenât up to playing the spec with extra button presses. I would say try BM but if you canât keep up dots, you will really suck at frenzy stacks. I know, try Fury warrior, or Ele shaman. They arenât as challenging from what I hear.
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Donât debate with cognition about anything hunter related . He doesnât have the credentials or skill set he just argues with everyone . Anything you wanna know about BM Hunter gameplay talk to me directly .
Look at his post history - itâs a lot of complaining and nothing thatâs ever positive . Itâs really concerning
You seem obsessed with the guy. You alright bro? There are people that can help you with that.
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This isnât true. Youâre conflating parses with people playing. There are a large number of people who play BM and never step foot into raids let alone parse.
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Legolaso, I donât want to stir the pot, but I took the time to look up your M+ logs to see your +20 runs (gotta admit i wanna be like you dro). You did great, and that is nice to see to be honest, but in every log I looked at, except for a PF run, you were always the last place DPS. Granted you have a large number of runs without logs, so I am curious if in your experience this is the norm. Also, I noticed that in 3rd place you were still parsing 99% but the other classes above you in damage were sometimes as low as 65%. Just wanted to get your take on the M+ land while I can make use of the info.
Hi doc I wish I knew how to access what youâre looking at. Itâs really hard to measure the data youâre looking at .
Dps in keys is largely dependent on how the tank pulls the dungeon. For instance, in plaguefall, if the tank splits the slime pull versus pulling them all together, dynamic overall dps will shift drastically because your 2 minute cds wonât be applied to the second slime pull. Try not to pay too much attention to those numbers. As a bm hunter, with only two minute cooldowns and not 1 minute cooldowns, these types of small pulls will crush you by the end of the dungeon.
My best overall was 13.2k in Halls 19.
This was largely due in part because the tank was chain pulling which allows me to keep up 3 stacks of frenzy. This may not be in the combat logs, I donât know who logs them honestly .
Overall, to be honest you will be last place dps thatâs the state of our class right now, however I have been crushing tyrannical week typically on top of the charts for boss fights. Sometimes that is what the class brings and the group takes you !
âBM does good ST damageâ is one of those memes that fits right in with âBM scales wellâ and âBM is strong in movement-fightsâ.
It just takes one random to upload the log out of your 5 man group. Many just dont bother, so there usually arent that many logs for M+, but some are often there.
Sigh, i dont want to say youre bad, but that the spec is bad rn. I just took out the first two logs that were on your page, two tyrannical Halls. You were last on every single boss in those encounters. Wait, theres one exception. The last boss on the second run you were first. Why? the other two dps were dead for quite a while.
And before you now go âSee, a good BM is good!â: You wouldve done better on basically any other spec and comparing yourself to dead players is no good look if you want to show how good a spec is.
Only being better than dead players is no good look.
Groups take you because they know you, because you have a high rio or because they think youre MM/SV.
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Well to comment on the âgroups take you because they know youâ
I guess you could be right. I make very little mistakes .
Doing big damage is awesome but if you canât survive then the key will die. Iâd rather survive the entire dungeon and do lower dps, then die on random trash pulls and be the top dps. Thatâs what kills keys. Not a lower dps spec.
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Doc one of the best things you can do to take ur gameplay to the next level in keys is learn how to use your frost trap - your frost trap can negate so many abilities that are uninterruptible . Negating these abilities will help your teammates stay alive.
Houndmasters in halls cast a frontal called ârapid fireâ immediatley frost trap this spell so your melle doesnât die.
In TOP âdevouring fleshâ heals the mob. Immediatley frost trap this ability. These are some things that I do to keep the key moving in a timeable fashion. You never want a mob to heal in any sort of way.
In necrotic wake âFinal Bargainâ full heals a mob - immediatley frost trap this ability.
In plaguefall âwithering faithâ âdefender of maldraxxusâ ⌠frost trap them .
My frost trap is actually keybinded when I run mythic + thatâs how much I use it just so you get an idea of how important this is to use
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Also for what it is worth I donât have any data from halls on tyrannical this week?
This is the first week Iâve been using my 2 set. I think the data youâre looking at is kind of skewed. I saw the log youâre talking about thatâs from the previous tyrannical week??
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Yes, its not from this week and you didnt have set pieces at that time. However, only one of the other dps had a 2 set as well and the BM set isnt particularly powerful.
Also, lets not get too hung up on singular logs. We dont need to try and judge the strength of a spec on two runs. The overall data gives us enough to do that.
It isnât hard to maintain. It is a feels bad moment when a mechanic forces you to drop your stacks, but if your playing right its easy to build back up. I just wish BM was tuned a bit better. The freedom they have to consistently due damage and move around almost unencumbered is awesome, but there is something missing from the spec for sure. Nothing major needs to happen but another 2-3% overall buff is just what the spec needs.
Hopefully for 10.0 they take a good look at the spec and change a few things. I wouldnât want to give up the mobility of the spec but some sort of on demand DPS cooldown or some cool pet abilities to manage would be awesome. You donât really feel like a master of beasts when all you do is press kill command.
How do you see the info about how much dps people did on warcraft logs? I managed to just now see a few dungeons that show dps, why only 4 out of like 80 logs though? What am I missing here