A quick positive side bar comment
But apparently you’re not complaining right? So do tell what you meant if seeing LGBTQ+ people existing didn’t bother you
2 Likes
like i don’t want to know who’s orientation is what in my war and strategy game
So I was right
At least own it
Its very evident
1 Like
Oh, then you should go on the forums for your war and strategy game and stop hanging around the forums for a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game that is neither a war game, nor a strategy game.
10 Likes
Blizzard already constraints why colors the different races can have.
Hence, why I can’t make a black LFD.
Blizzard is arguing a lore reason for the lore limitation because thats not how Draeneis are supposed to look.
If it was a free for all and we had access to all the colors then you would be right.
But Blizzard added these specific colors. So in certain conditions we can have a onyx colored Night Elf.
Ok blizzard. Why can this Night Elf be onyx colored? How does that happen?
We also have really pale Night Elves too now as well.
I can headcanon my back ground, family relations, profession and personality. But what I look like is part of world building. Who am I? A Night Elf? Where are Night Elves from? Kalimdor? Male or Female? How does the society treat either one? What shade of hair color, eye color and skin color do I have?
What significance does each have? Etc. These are all things Blizzard has a part in producing. Otherwise I just have to make up lore to explain it or ignore it all together.
i can’t own something that is false
The problem is, this viewpoint is looking at black elves from a real world stance on race, and a bit of a shallow one.
Race, in the real world sense, is largely socially constructed artificial system of separation. There is very little difference between people of different skin colors. However, how people of different cultures have been treated is very real and very harmful, and that harm has been deeply intertwined into and systemically woven into our societies.
There is little to no indication that things like racism in the skin color sense, or homophobia, or transphobia, or sexism exists in the Warcraft setting. While we do see some traditional gender roles and gendered costumes, we also see characters with diverse skin tones existing and not saying anything or making a big deal about it. Likewise, we see female characters in major military roles. We also see homosexual characters and no one bats an eye, and we’ve even seen a trans character and no one really cared.
So in a real world context it is blackface. But in the context of the warcraft universe, I’m not so sure.
What I do think is blackface is the lack of diverse facial structures and hair types for elves, right now they’re all same face with silky hair. I sure would love to give Tidanel an afro ponytail and Kemnebi dreads loosely tied back. This is why I’ve been campaigning since they announced the new customizations were going to happen to get those features for Blood Elves.
3 Likes
Yet it rings true that LGBTQ+ existing seems to bother you if this is your follow up reply to
I hope Blizz shows more of Shaw and Flynn 
Oh and idk if I’m the one to break it to you about strategy games but LGBTQ+ people/stories/characters exist in those spaces as well!
1 Like
Zan here started out gay, then after RPing him a bit, it turns out he’s more under the bisexual umbrella.
I’ve decided he’s pansexual mostly because then I get to say he’s “Zan the pan man,” and that’s very good.
1 Like
I wonder if any LGBTQ+ people who also develop inclusive stories for their characters and have positive takes on the lore / stand in solidarity with other minorities will be or have been chosen for the community council
I’m considering applying next time the thing opens up. But I’d be doing it all sneaky like on a classic alt on a server I don’t play on so I don’t get harassed.
1 Like
You should! LGBTQ+ representation and someone who stands with other minorities too
Unless they add more options. By not having the cosmetic options tied into the story that leaves the freedom to add more options without worrying about screwing up the lore. It is a game with a long life that adds things from now and then, it has to take that into consideration and leave itself space for the future. While hard and fast rules can be appealing, they constrict a game like this by limiting your story by your cosmetic choices. And as of yet, there’s never really been any importance placed on those options.
But how important? Does anyone care if your elf has leaves in their hair? They’re an aspect of a character, but how much does the world care about them? Many of the story hooks that in a story told in the real world that would be attached to skin color are instead manifested in the wow story by entirely separate races.
Worldbuilding can be too complex, it is there to support the plot not the other way around. If the plot calls for a long simmering conflict you build the world to support that by coming up with old wars and grudges two groups have with each other. This doesn’t mean necessarily making it up as you go, just that it’s probably better to spend most of your time worrying about the underpinnings of the story you want to tell, and don’t worry too much about the side details that you can leave vague until you have need for that information to be fleshed out.
And in a game with player made characters, it’s not a bad thing to allow freedom to make up your backstory without too many constraints.
Race is a social construct but we also have explanations as to how the human race became such a rich tapestry through migration over thousands of years.
You could say thats the world building for our real world.
In a fantasy setting when you write that world if you want to create an equally diverse world then you need to have similar world building. No group should be forgotten or just play passenger.
At least thats my hot take.
that’s awfully specific and silly
I just said that.
I could also say the world building is adequate as it is, as I demonstrated, and anyone who has trouble with it is just creatively challenged.
I like turtles
3 Likes
Well it depends. It could effect strategy.
As a commander, I might send a Matahari-type spy into the camp of a known carouser and drunkard who loves the attention from women… but such a spy might be wasted if the enemy commander is always with his closest confidant, a male who is captain of the guard and spends nights in the commanders tent to “keep watch”.
I don’t think sexuality is the most important aspect of the story. But it can be an important and interesting aspect of the story. Or at least provide a bit of detail and color.
I can imagine a scene where it might be mentioned :
Seductive Spy Mistress : “You picked the right gal for the job. I can get any man to tell me his secrets. And I don’t even need a succubus to keep my men charmed.”
Me : “Well… we got more intel since we summoned you. Hate to break it to you, but your wiles will have no power on their commander. We better think of a new plan.”
3 Likes
I guess we just have to agree to disagree but at the very least it seems you are the only person that actually understood what I am saying.
To address your point though I fully support the freedom argument but I think there can definitely be a compromise between the two otherwise Blizzard should remove all limitations because their restrictions aren’t really rooted in lore but something else.
If you say so but what I was saying addressed the idea as a whole rather than just blizzard and their color variation implementation. It talked about media in general.
You seem to favor that POCs should just be a ride along with much richer existing lore the “white” races and cultures already have from the existing source material.
To be clear, the point I was making (For Smalls, because he lacks the range to do it himself) is that the real-world and in-universe seperation is less relevant. It’s about what those characters mean to the players, and having your swarthy skinned hero-surrogate rising to prominence will feel less impactful when beyond his skin color, he’s still just another European-inspired Stormwind knight, with European-inspired values and European-inspired Stormwind armor and weapons than, say, if he were more tied to a culture that fit closer to your own. This is more about NPCs than PCs obviously, but I’m sure you get the point. It doesn’t feel like inclusion when it’s a token pallette option in chargen.
So, having finally remodelled Alynsa here (the avatar should update sometime between this very post and 2024), that’s what really frustrated me. I wanted something closer to how I look. And… There is literally no options that come anywhere close. And the more I looked at it, the more I saw it for what it all is; just a pallette swap color change. I’m a mocha elf. I’m a “light cream in your coffee” elf. Because every single hairstyle I see fits less with a racially diverse elvinkind and more with a “Brittney stayed in the tanning bed a bit too long” aesthetic.
It was seeing the skin tone options with no matching hair or face options that made me see what Smalls is possibly trying to say.
This feels so token.
But it’s better than having absolutely nothing.
And it’s better than the past status quo where the only dark skinned dwarves were the dark irons, who just so happened to be the “evil dwarves”.
5 Likes