New community council has Story/Lore section

[Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood (Tarrok)]

@Smallioz-kromcrush

I like creating back stories for my characters.

Speaking of Worldbuilding. A really important aspect of it for a game where people can create their own character is leaving them the space to do so. By leaving this info blank other than its existence it allows for the players to craft backstories that they like, You are free to come up with a reason why your character looks how they look, and someone else is just as free to not worry about why they look the way they do but are able to have the story details like homeland or such that they want and the appearance they like.

It’s actually why many highly fleshed out setting are bad for rpgs, in this case more for plots than backstories, but settings like the LoTR or say Dragonlance has no room for the players to be the big heroes as all of that is history by now. Some vagueness is good in these mediums as it allows for more player choice.

@Smallioz-kromcrush

I don’t understand why a race war is necessary to make this type of world building necessary. Some Night Elves have different skin tones… idk the more blue you are the more afinity you have with magic. Make something up.

It doesn’t need to be a race war, but without story significance what’s the point in locking down what is in general an inconsequential detail which will prevent people from doing what they want with their own characters? If there’s no story significance to skin color, why treat it any different from hair color?

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

You sound like you’re fun at parties

Speaking of I was supposed to go out this weekend and didn’t.

If I had known the alternative to having fun at the gay clubs was trying to explain that non white people are allowed to exist I would have never stayed in.

It’s not even an opinion Blizzard stands by, they themselves don’t believe non white people need reasons to exist outside of they do just like their white characters.

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

@Smallioz-kromcrush

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

Non white people can exist.

It’s literally that simple. Moving on.

It clear you are not reading a single thing I am saying and you are just interested in fighting.

I think we’re both reading what you are actually saying quite clearly and think it’s a problem.

@Smallioz-kromcrush

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

Did you know that my character is written as someone covered in freckles. Does that trigger you?

No it does not.

Why do black elves trigger you but a freckled redheaded elf not? Hm? Hm? Hm? Explain.

@Smallioz-kromcrush

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

Genetic diversity exists. No further explanation is necessary.

Are you switching to real world laws of physics? Or are we still using fantasy laws of physics that the writer makes and introduces in the story?

The writer doesn’t have to make introductions in story if they don’t want to. The writer is free to do whatever they want. They don’t need an explanation.

This means:
In a fantasy where the writer chooses? No explanation is needed.

If we’re considering a more realistic approach, genetic diversity exists, no explanation needed.

There is not a single case where an explanation is needed for black people in fantasy.

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

I’m going to be going to a local fraternity party today.

I think. If I can remember where it is.

I’m thinking about joining. It’s an inclusive fraternity for LGBT men.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

Oh I love that!!!

[Smallioz-kromcrush]

@Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood

Speaking of Worldbuilding. A really important aspect of it for a game where people can create their own character is leaving them the space to do so. By leaving this info blank other than its existence it allows for the players to craft backstories that they like,

Oh of course but the author still does the bare minimum of setting up the stage.
And I think racial diversity falls into that.
Racial diversity in a specific race has so much world building that goes into it. Like are these people darker because they are closer to the ocean? If so what is their diet? their economy? their culture?
Blizzard could set up a vague description of “Dark Purple” nights elves live in the coastal regions of darkshore. And the player can take it from there.

@Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood

It doesn’t need to be a race war, but without story significance what’s the point in locking down what is in general an inconsequential detail which will prevent people from doing what they want with their own characters? If there’s no story significance to skin color, why treat it any different from hair color?

Its about fleshing out and adding complexity and differentiation to the people of the world you are marking. GRRM references a lot of different people in his books and sometimes we don’t even see the people he refers to in his world building. They aren’t necessary to the plot but it still makes the world seem bigger and unexplored.

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

In a fantasy where the writer chooses? No explanation is needed.

As I said at the very start of our exchange.
It is completely fine if you dislike world building in fantasy. That’s ok.
I think differently. I have tried several times to explain to you my stance but you keep reverting to strawman argument that you accuse me of.
Its quite clear besides some baseless attacks you really don’t have an argument.

[Norinila-moon-guard]

why dose it always come down to lgbt?

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Norinila-moon-guard

why dose it always come down to lgbt?

What?

Does that bother you too?

Yes LGBTQ+ peoples exist

[Kemnebi-wyrmrest-accord (Kemnebi)]

I find it really hard to understand how people are struggling to write the backstories of Blood Elves who have dark skin.

Kemnebi is from a typical family in Windrunner Village, he was born on the autism spectrum and was nonverbal until he was about eight years old. His parents sent him to study in the city. He became a ranger trainee, then the scourge attacked while he and his squad were training and all their arrows had hit paper. He fled and ran up a tree where he remained. He thought his partner was there with him but when he turned to help her up he saw her torn limb from limb from the scourge. He suffered PTSD from the trauma and regressed as a coping mechanism, and basically turned feral for a while.

Then Zan stumbled upon him, and started feeding him and got him medical care. When Zan stopped coming around, Kem tracked him down, broke into his house, and nonverbally demanded Zan feed him. He’s been with Zan’s household ever since as their head of security.

He’s now recovered (though he still has PTSD) and can talk again but largely chooses not to. He has savant traits, is a dead shot and is training other rangers who are part of the merchant household.

None of this required knowing why his skin is dark. It just is.

[Norinila-moon-guard]

yeah i have meny friends that are peoples exist wow thats cool

[Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood (Tarrok)]

@Smallioz-kromcrush

Racial diversity in a specific race has so much world building that goes into it. Like are these people darker because they are closer to the ocean? If so what is their diet? their economy? their culture?
Blizzard could set up a vague description of “Dark Purple” nights elves live in the coastal regions of darkshore. And the player can take it from there.

But then that imposes a limit on players that links their background to a skin color if they like that shade. And what’s does that add to game to make up for the limits it imposes? It’s not even in the same family everyone has the same exact skin tone. It just doesn’t seem like a worthwhile rabbit hole for a game to go down with the pitfalls around it as well as just locking down player freedom in character creation.

@Norinila-moon-guard

why dose it always come down to lgbt?

Because a lot of people can’t stand letting them be and throw a fit when they’re reminded they exist?

[Tidanel-wyrmrest-accord]

Tidanel is from Suncrown Village. His mother was a magistrix, his father was a ranger. He was very young when the scourge came, and as a last act of bravery, his mother used magic to spirit him high into the mountains above fairbreeze village where he was safe. He was trained formally in magic use and had been learning archery from his dad as a hobby.

He became a ward of Quel’thalas and was put into training and eventually joined the Pyreanor household studying under both a mage and Kemnebi. He’s an arcane spellbow. We’ve seen spellbows in the Throne of Thunder.

His skin color doesn’t even come into play with his story at all. He’s just how he is.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

Their bothered by the mention of LGBTQ+ people having a positive exchange.

But to be clear they came in to defend other people having issues with non white people existing.

It’s incredibly weird imo and all of this while being on a RP realm lol

[Smallioz-kromcrush]

@Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood

But then that imposes a limit on players that links their background to a skin color if they like that shade. And what’s does that add to game to make up for the limits it imposes?

Its the same limit as to why Night Elves live in a forest.
All this is doing is adding one more layer of information.
Why do I look like this? Here is why.

Thats not a bad thing.

@Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood

It’s not even in the same family everyone has the same exact skin tone. It just doesn’t seem like a worthwhile rabbit hole for a game to go down with the pitfalls around it as well as just locking down player freedom in character creation.

Its actually more complicated. Like can two night elves with blue skin give birth to an onyx skinned child? Or can two onyx colored Night Elves give birth to purple child? Are all these color variations a random chance or something else?

See thats the problem for me. I think this should be explained. its far too vague.
Not only for wow but all other stories like I said. If your fantasy race or culture has clear differentiations from each other then it should be explained how it happened.
Even if its random chance and completely separated from the rest of the world.

[Tarrok-thorium-brotherhood (Tarrok)]

@Smallioz-kromcrush

All this is doing is adding one more layer of information.
Why do I look like this? Here is why.

Why does that need to come from the top?

It’s not a bad thing for a player to be able to decide how much impact that choice will have on their own character either.

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

I could continue to go on with quick summaries of my characters backstories to prove that character backstories can be written without a huge explanation as to why black elves exist.

Though maybe I’m just a better creative writer and don’t need everything spelled out to me.

[Lannisterian-tichondrius]

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

Though maybe I’m just a better creative writer and don’t need everything spelled out to me.

But Zan that poster thinks you don’t understand world building

[Norinila-moon-guard]

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

Their bothered by the mention of LGBTQ+ people having a positive exchange.

naa thats just what you want to make it about. and for all you know i could be lgbtq my self? so thats a bad take

[Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord (Zandrae)]

@Lannisterian-tichondrius

@Zandrae-wyrmrest-accord

Though maybe I’m just a better creative writer and don’t need everything spelled out to me.

But Zan that poster thinks you don’t understand world building

Surely I never won an award for my writing on a state level (the largest state in the US btw) and have never been published.

[Alynsa-wyrmrest-accord]

Alright. I’m going to regret what I’m about to do. It makes me a little bit nauseous. But I’m going to try and explain what Small guy is trying to say. And it kills me, because I think it’s only bad because of how he’s wording it, not what he means.

Uhg. Here we go.

So Small Ion isn’t saying that the problem is “black elves exist”. The problem, as he sees it, is better worded as “black elves exist, and culturally, they are white elves with different skin tones, and that is not good.”

And… He’s not entirely wrong. God help me, he’s not entirely wrong. Because it’s artificial representation.

Everything we know about blood elf society is pretty Euro-centric. They are built on very European fantasy magic elf kingdom archetypes, inspired by white cultures from that region. It’s white fantasy through and through with no inspirations from non-European cultures.

So saying that our “black elves” also live exactly in that same Euro-centric, European-inspired culture and city? It’s not diversity at all. It’s “elf blackface”. It’s taking white elves and painting them black and calling it job done, no further explanation needed.

Because being BIPOC isn’t just a skin color. There’s cultural upbringing that goes with it. There’s a whole ethnicity there. You can’t take a white girl and paint her up and expect her to be like me, a middle eastern woman raised by middle eastern parents. My lived experience isn’t just a paint job on a white American girl, even if I lived in America.

Expecting non-white elves, gnomes, dwarves and humans to just be “Stormwindian human, but with a different skin tone” is almost as tone deaf and ignorant as not having those other skin tones, and a fantasy setting should develop a culture and ethnicity for those non-white members of various races.

BUT!!!

While Smallion is correct, it’s also very unrealistic because it means one of two things would need to occur; either Blizzard holds off on applying the skin tone options until they come up with appropriate lore for each race and each skin pallette (which would take years), OR they hold off on developing anything but that lore and we have to wait years for new content. Because Blizzard’s a slow, ponderous beast when it comes to developing new story-based content.

Neither option is good. Neither option is healthy. The least bad option is to just throw the skin tone options out there and do nothing more, because at least people can make avatars that look similar to themselves, similar to their people. It’s a small thing, but it’s better than no thing at all.

Now I need to go use some mouthwash.