Tolkien’s work had pretty dark moments. GoT was derivative in that regard.
Imo, I felt that “Dany and Jon” being related was almost a “toned down” version of Turin Turambar and Nienor. But instead of being siblings who were scattered to the winds, in GoT they are aunt and nephew who never met. (I think if their relationship were swapped - if Jon was her Uncle and she was his Niece, even with the similar age, it probably would have been less palatable to the general audience.)
I expect some pretty grim stuff from this Tolkien series, and it has nothing to do with GoT. Especially if we get to the Human Sacrifices that the Kingsmen do for Morgoth.
Your argument makes no sense, holds no water, and is invalid.
You’re basically coming off like an over-salivating lispy half inch lens glasses wearing nerd spraying, “M’Source Material,” as an excuse to demand minorities have some sort of excuse for existing when literally none is necessary.
Naw, see, it’s about the world-building!! Y’know, when an author says “his skin is white because it just is”, that’s world building!!
It’s unfair of adaptations to ruin the world building of “his skin is white because it just is” by not giving a fifty page explanation on where the heck these black elves came from and why they dare to exist in the fantasy stories of white people that Small Ion loves so much!!!
The main fear is an attempt to make LotR ‘sexy’ when it is extremely chaste, Catholic, and was written by a Linguistics Professor from the Edwardian era.
In the works only a few specific elves and the Noldor were said to be fair skinned. You’re just making assumptions about the other elves and couching it as world building.
Speaking of world building, the stuff you’re listing as “good” world building is kind of bland. People have always traveled, there’s no reason to segregate different peoples to only their region when that’s never been true on this world. We have actual historical records of Africans living in the British Isles during the Roman Empire. First Nations people traveled far using boats along the coastlines. People traded with others, yes, many people never left home, but even now with much easier travel many people still don’t. It’s kinda hacky to think "Oh, the only reason different people would live together is being forced together by an outside force.
And if you’re so upset about the horrible sin of the series not living up to your unfounded assumption of skin colors of fictional races, are you upset about the not true to Tolkien’s work elves having pointy ears in it too?
No one has said this. This is called a strawman argument.
It is not. It was first about shallowness of different poc people’s and culture being represented in stories and how Blizzard is not the only ones with this failing.
This conversation is not just about LOTR but many and we are using many examples. You can scroll up and see I made this distinction very early on.
I understand you joined this conversation midway through so its an understandble mistake.
There is nothing wrong with elves being diverse. Any race for that matter but if you are adding different ethnicities/cultures to your fantasy race then you need the world building to support it.
For example in Avatar the last airbender which has not a single white person in sight they still managed to still show a variety of ethnicities and cultures through their world building.
Awesome. So we have the world building for the white elves. Now lets give the same poc elves the same respect and give them a world building element of their own.
There is no need to seegregate. You could set your story in a bustling city like something inspired from Istanbul where people as far as china are living with viking mercenries in the same city. In the new Arcane show the city of Piltover attracts people from all over the world and it would be wierd if all the people in piltover were white. Its supposed to be an increadible diverse city.
That was one single example for one story. There many, many ways of doing it.
Anything is better then just putting 1 token poc person there with no background and explanation that every other elf/dwarf kind received. Its feels lazy and tacked on.
Yeah sure make some elves have bigger ears, different hair colors or styles. Make them more diverse and explain how and why these people have such a variety.
We have it in the real world. Why not in fantasy too?
I think you should focus on what your posts would be classified or called, learn and grow from it.
Also you very much have implied others don’t care about fantasy like you do who is saying does because you take issue with black and brown peoples existing.
What do you mean? Why wouldn’t there be? Its already there for the white elves.
I am middle eastern. Don’t worry brown folks don’t make me uncomfortable.
Maybe I should ask why you are so concerned that they get attention and get proper development? Why do you want just a token presence?
I think you should actually read and understand what someone is trying to say rather than gaslight and project what you think and want them to say.
I am very confident and aware of who I am and what I like and why.
It’s also one that for example Blizzard doesn’t stand by or endorse, so they don’t even have the lore in this game to try to hide behind. Blizzard said they always have seen their world as diverse and the reflections of that were long over due.
In other words not even they stand with these peoples “opinion”
So Warcraft is a fantasy world. The laws of reality don’t apply. The lore is literally what the developers say it is. You have teenage humans who are more powerful than elf mages who have practiced for thousands of years despite there being no logic or reason for it. You have people having relationships with dragons. You have giant anthropomorphic cows, and chonky anthropomorphic pandas, werewolves, vampires, cute anthropomorphic fox people. A literal realm of the dead. Time travel. Orcs, trolls, goblins, and funny men who turn into birbs.
But Blizzard adding in diverse skin tones without any explanation because they realized that the stuff they made in yesteryear wasn’t inclusive and didn’t fit the type of world they wanted today is too much. Too much darn it.
Well, it’s there for Elves. You still haven’t pointed out anything to back up your declaration that they’re all white other than that you think so.
Why? Elves exist, middle earth is the whole of the Earth, only one of the types of elves is explicitly declared fair skinned. There is no special point in the story that makes elves being white important. So no reason that elves looking different would be a problem.
What is a problem is the extra hoops thrown in when something like this comes up. It’s demanding to make the new thing an Other, not the same as the ones we’re used to.
You just seem so concerned about something that isn’t that important and not fleshed out getting fleshed out some, I’d think you’d be just as concerned that the elves that are mainly distinguished from men by their eyes being given physical features they were actual describe lacking as you were about features that were not mentioned.