New Class Tuning and dh?

all classes have been improved in this patch and the havoc demon hunter still forgotten with the 4 piece set that sucks.
Why blizard hates dhs?
the main reason we are invited in keys is because we buff casters.


looks like blizzard likes to test who really likes havoc. this 4p tier thing and depending on 20%+ of a dot from the pact is not encouraging. was the team that takes care of the dh all sent away? D:


Havoc doesnt exist to blizzard.

This has been made ubundantly clear by the severe lack of acknowledgement, and when we are even glimpsed at…its flat aura buff modifiers because no one at blizzard plays DH.

Its like talking to a brick wall. Doing 1raid boss, combing through top dh logs on a fight by fight basis, or doing a key will imediately reveal the problems with havoc. So IMO if they havent figured it out yet, nobody even cares

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I got downvoted into oblivion on the WoW subreddit for saying Havoc needs help. Everyone thinks we’re “just fine”. If that’s indeed the prevailing mentality of the community, don’t expect anything from Blizzard.

Our class is literally built for AOE/Cleave, yet our AOE/Cleave damage is towards the bottom of the pack.

Our 4-piece provides the worst DPS increase of any of the DPS classes.

Only one covenant is truly viable right now, and even it only provides a better than average (but not incredible) single-target boost that doesn’t even come close to offsetting the other problems.

As mentioned, HDH is literally only brought along in M+ because we buff Mage/Lock/etc., we have a lot of interrupt/stun tools, and we’re good for certain affixes (explosive, for example). Even then, you still have to be fairly overgeared with an absurdly overqualified IO to get into any pug groups.

Only like 10% of the top 3000 M+ runs in S3 had an HDH in the group. There’s a reason for that.

Nerfing Destro Lock and Survival hunter will do nothing for us, but everyone seems to think that’s the be-all, end all answer.

Sure, we’re absolutely overpowered in Torghast, but nobody runs Torghast anymore and everyone hated grinding Torgh to begin with.


Isn’t havoc the most played spec in the game?

Even if that were true (which it may be), that doesn’t mean it’s the best performing spec in the game in endgame content.

It’s fun as absolute heck to play, hence why a ton of people play it. But it’s in a very bad spot right now with regard to actual performance in high end raiding and higher M+.

Edit: Or maybe your point is that it’s laughable how much they ignore such a popular class?

I was looking to see if these numbers are accurate, I’ll update when I come across the hard numbers.

Yeah I totally agree. They should prioritize the most popular spec, for sure.

However that guy I replied to claimed “Havoc doesn’t exist to Blizzard.” That’s just silly.

havoc being or not being the most played spec in no way counters my argument of havoc not existing to them.

A spec simply existing with a high player count doesn’t mean that blizzard magically just “cares” about it. Blizzard has historically ignored DH since it’s inception, slowly with each patch and expansion stripping it’s power leaving HDH to rely on borrowed power and haste scaling with that borrowed power to do any damage.

Instead of fixing havocs baseline kit, they ignore us entirely. The community has been noting fixes since BFA started, and blizzard has done NOTHING to fix us. The only reason we were good in BFA was scaling with corruption, yet they nerfed out kit going into SL like that was the problem??

Havoc has simple problems, with simple fixes. And i have talked at length on those issues throughout these forums.


Performance is average in raids and keys. My problem is the playstyle revolving entirely around Sinful Brand, which is so strong that it pushes out every other covenant and spec. The playstyle is boring, tedious, and RNG-heavy.

We’re pigeonholed into sustained single target DPS/utility, which has never been our role, and compares unfavorably to other classes who can do this well and funnel and AOE effectively. Everything we do is centered around Sinful Brand; our talents, legendary choices, and rotation are all dedicated to ensuring 100% uptime on this ability that isn’t fun to play or play around.

I didn’t sign up to be a DOT class. I hate DOT classes. It’s the reason I don’t play Warlock, Shadow Priest, or Boomkin. Suddenly, by accident, DOT maintenance became the heart and soul of this class. It’s horrible.

This used to be a fast-paced spec with lots of burst and AOE. It was fun and flavorful and felt good.

The fact that Eye Beam’s damage is inconsequential feels terrible. The fact that the only reason I Chaos Strike is to fish for Cycle procs feels terrible. The fact that I never press Blade Dance feels terrible. The fact that pressing Death Sweep during AOE makes me feel guilty because it risks my Sinful Brand feels terrible. The fact that I can get unlucky on Cycle resets and lose my Brand (and all my DPS with it) feels terrible.

Not to mention the fact that Fel Rush is buggier than ever.

Unfortunately, as long as Chaos Brand exists, my guild will continue to draw straws to decide which unlucky soul has to play this godforsaken class. Maybe I’ll get lucky and they’ll remove Chaos Brand so I’ll never have to think about Havoc again.


Far as I’m aware it’s Balance Druid and I’d compare Balance Druid to other popular specs if you’d like a better comparison. I think it’s unfair to say they ‘don’t care’, it’s more like the specs that they do seem to care about happen to have the developers’ ears on twitter and are organized in advocating for their interests.

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havoc is weak in mythic plus, very weak aoe


That’s because, “Feels bad man” is a meme, not an argument.

Provide a ranking chart, or data driven source.

This is the assessment of Havoc from Icy Veins as of last week;

June 08, [Patch 9.2.5] update: Havoc Demon Hunter did not receive any change leading to this patch; most notably, they are currently slightly above the middle of the pack, being the role of the “support” rather than the “hyper-carry”. Their flexible damage profile paired with high utility makes them a good fit for a third DPS choice, all together with the high self-sustain, immunity, and mobility, this spec is definitely not to be underestimated. One thing that can push Havoc beyond its A-ranking is higher damage output.

Do any of you have data to refute this statement?

The data I have provided does not support your conclusion that Havoc needs to be boosted, if anything the data provides a warning to NOT increase Havoc damage because it currently is middle/average, which makes Havoc a good measure to use when nerfing or buffing other classes. Desto/Demo, Subtly, WW, Surv. H. should all have their damage/utility reduced to be in line with Havoc output. Affliction, Unholy DK, Feral and Ret Pal, should all see damage/utility increased. All other classes appear OK.

Yes. Sinful Brand is the only thing propping us up by doing >30% of our overall damage, do you not see the problem here? Sinful Brand, is a DoT. Where we as Havoc DHs used to be AoE/Cleave are now responsible for gameplay that requires us to keep a DoT up or we do ZERO damage.

It wouldn’t be an issue if First Blood was just baseline, because we could press another button, but its either one or the other, we can never have both, and that is not a great feeling at all. We are also relying on so much Borrowed Power not just from Legos or Tier Set, were relying on trinkets such as the Cache or the Phial or weapons like Poxstorm that just give free damage, thats not great gameplay at all.


Okay, you are honestly laughably blind at thus point pulling an excerpt from icy veins.

Its clear at this point you rely on other sources than your own, are incapable of acrolling through raid logs, incapable of playing with players thay can play their own class to show you the pitfalls of dh, and frankly have terrible taste if you enjoy havocs current rotational blandness.

If you refuse to find appropriate data then dont post anything at all.

Why dont you just go watch a havoc streamer for starters? Here you know what ill go stream a high key and upload it to youtube so you can seenfirsthand the laughable state dh is in.

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I don’t know if you make advanced content according to your profile, you don’t do anything like that. considering that you don’t know how frustrating and boring it can be to wait so long for nothing or feel like you don’t do enough damage to be at the same level as the other classes even though you have almost 279 ilvl and nobody wants a support to make a stone 22+ for that is the healer who is the only one who should be support. in that case, remove the dps spec and make the havoc a healer or simply tank it just to give casters a 5% buff.
when you play in hight keys can you see the bad spor is the havoc no 20 keys is this moment is easily timed but keys +23+24 you start see de diference with other clases and you can see the rejection that is had when playing with this class, i have friends dh prefer re roll other clases because are boring the lose time try to get in one key. ppl want to play and have fun, no lose time spin around in oribos try to get in one key. waiting 1-2 hours for nothing.

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