Yes. All 3 warriors on top. All others on bottom, but even on the bottom.
I agree on the prot front. They are butchering it imo, but hey they are buffing our damage I guess…
Fury seems fine to me, just fix SMF to be a bit better. Arms is still clunky though, I’d love a rework on that spec.
Like people said when it was released, we either need more support specs making it a proper role or it shouldn’t be in the game at all.
At this point I think they should nerf it into the floor and work on a rework
Outlaw was good the whole DF i believe , i havent done any M+ this season since everyone wants Sin, but outlaw is really fun too bad they took away shadow dance
By the smallest of margins for the cutting edge of key levels. That doesn’t apply to 99% of the playerbase. The people who “determine the meta” are playing their specs perfectly in coordinated groups. Your average Joe in a +7 pug is not, and that advantage goes away.
The community is the one that’s wrong for letting the strategies of the top 1% of players influence their play. This is not a WoW-specific problem. I’ve used this example before, but I played Dota2 for years. Even at the trashest of ranks, everyone wanted to do what the pros were doing “because it was the best” even if they had no idea how to combo the hero abilities effectively.
At the end of the day a class being better than another applies to everybody, even if it doesn’t matter
But it matters to enough people where they should probably fix it
Meh. If the difference was as marginal as you say there wouldn’t be a meta.
Just look at the difference between the current kit for Prot Pally and Brewmaster as an example. Both can successfully Tank M+ but Pally’s have it much much easier so even for lower keys they’re the choice.
Yea sorry I just get really frustrated by people like him who just come to spread disinformation because they think it’s funny
Most of the people pushing for title are going to pick the meta comps even if the difference is very minor because they want to improve their chances.
Does it mean other specs couldn’t if someone wanted to work at it? No it doesn’t.
Does it mean that players aren’t going to play into the perception bias and blindly follow the meta because that’s what other people are doing? Unfortunately, no.
There will always be a meta, regardless of class balance. You’re welcome to push your own key.
What if it’s not minor? The difference between a 17 and a 20 is pretty crazy
The problem I see with assigning blame to the players is that the game has become so complex that making those determinations on their own has become very difficult.
A lot of players today know that unless they pick a popular spec they will be punished with declines or long stints sitting queues waiting to be picked. M+ is starting to make class choice a dead-end trap if you choose incorrectly.
Very few group leaders are going to “correct” that imbalance by choosing a perceived underperformer because they feel sorry for them. They are more interested in making their own lives easier so they will pick the best classes for their groups.
Many players feel like they’re fighting against a system that is rigged against them and the class/spec they chose. It doesn’t matter who much you admonish them, it’s the system making them feel this way.
Fix what? There’s nothing to fix. There are so many customizations possible between group combinations, specs and talents that making everything perfectly “balanced” would be impossible without completely gutting talent trees and giving every spec the same abilities regardless of class. At that point you’re just killing the game.
Yes there would. In any competitive game there is always a meta. And in every competitive game, the meta only applies to the 1% of players that can actually play perfectly and in coordinated groups to get the maximum production out of the combinations.
Good players can take any spec to high key levels. Bad players will struggle on any spec. Specs have always had different skill floors and that’s fine.
Then join a guild or community or create your own groups. The “meta problem” only exists in pugs. This also seems to be a DPS problem only, just like pugging, because I’m gearing a resto druid through keys and having zero issues getting invites even though I’m “not meta”.
And their groups will suck (as we see constantly on these forums) because they’re picking specs instead of players. If a group leader is picking an Enh shaman that bought a player boost, got delve gear and is taking their first foray into M+ just because they’re the meta over a hunter that has already done 50 keys at that level, that’s totally your prerogative and the custom group tool is working as intended, but you’re going to have a bad time.
No, it’s the other players making them feel that way. The “meta” doesn’t even matter until you’re doing +15s or higher. I’ve done keys in the 8-10 range without lust and brez with zero issues because they were good players. I’ve failed keys in the 3-5 range with “meta specs” because the players sucked and stood in every mechanic thinking that just because they’re playing what Liquid said is the best they should be able to get through dungeons with zero effort.
Aug by its nature has to be strong in group content especially in high keys because of utility
despite what they say…they do not aspire to class/spec balance…
they never have.
instead, they do the OP/Nerf thing on a rotational class/spec basis.
your class/spec’s time will come around…eventually.
While there’s definitely arguments that balance in 5 man content is worse than it’s been, I don’t think there’s any realistically achievable degree of balance we can reach that will offset just how easy blizzard have made it to reroll to fotm. At least not without mass homogenisation.
The fact you could drop your arms warrior in week 4 and have a frost DK within 1-2 ilvl in a few days means no matter how close things get, the expectation will still be to just swap to fotm.
They aren’t the only specs that “can”. However that is a common perception which becomes self-reinforcing. Additionally, these specs work really well as a group, people know this so it becomes easier to go with what you know than try something new. Pretty soon many high key players have already switched to one of these classes and those are all that is applying.
This only affects super high keys anyway. I main a meta spec but never ran anything higher than a 10 because I don’t personally care right now. Any class can run a 10.
Changing class design affects EVERYONE even though the actual percentage of people running +16 and higher is miniscule.
People that run at high levels will min max the poop out of everything they can, and that is fine. There is no balance at that level of play. There is always a “best” (or at least a perceived best).
Some classes stay meta season after season because their toolbox transcends current dungeon design, but again, this only impacts a small percentage of players. Nerfing things to the ground will only shift the meta somewhere else for a season but affect everyone that has ever played -with- one of those classes in any other scenario.
Class design is lost. They don’t know if they want healers to DPS, we’re 2 expansions deep now of them not knowing if healers are going to be DPSing or not and how they’re going to be doing it lol… (They nerfed acid rain just to buff it again, what is the point?) I don’t get why this isn’t talked about more.
Another thing that’s weird to me is mana. Some healers go OOM, some don’t. What is even going on with this? They can’t even balance mana.
I don’t think you know what balancing is, after seeing a bunch of your other comments.
Balance does not mean “everything is the same”, it means “everything is viable”. Certain specs do a lot of healing by doing damage. Some people prefer that. Certain specs don’t. And other people prefer that. Having multiple options to fit a spectrum of tastes is literally what balancing is, and all of them are viable.
Based on your other comments, I’m not gonna bother responding to you, just going straight on ignore. You don’t ever agree with anyone and you want to argue and dictate to me about the meaning of balance.
The mana thing isn’t even viability, it just doesn’t even make sense. Anyway, bye.
Gotta love the fragility of some people.