Vol’jin was only part of the rebellion at the end of the expansion. Lor’themar was leading the Horde during the rest of it.
But Vol´jin did more on Cata man. And the intellectual ownership of the true heart of the Horde (I swear Golden making Lor´themar LIE this way in BfA in regards to Baine was nightmarish and actually something to be punishable somehow irl) was all his.
Vol´jin was perfectly balanced: pragmatic without being evil, sensible to other Horde races´plight regardless of their origin -I mean a troll helping Belves… was heartwarming to see as a Belf fan-, open minded, a true “Horde before racial ancestors” example, member of a core wc3 race… he had it all. I still get weepy when I see that post SoO raid cinematic.
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Well yeah, here people do make threads about gameplay choices. The huge majority of this forum during BfA was people insulting people for choosing to side against Sylvanas. A gameplay choice given to them. There were people who insulted people for siding with Sylvanas. That’s basically what half of this forum was.
I play both factions already.
You’re right, I can’t make people do that. Just as you can’t make Blizzard writers change the story they’ve written. Yet here we are in our convictions.
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i don’t know, i think talanji has some potential.
honestly i am personally more interested in her interactions with the alliance or their characters but thats just me.
i don’t mind new characters having the spotlight, but it really had to be zekhan, who is like 16 y old boy?
and you send this literal child to protect a queen?
Why not rokhan? but, alright i guess, not my story.
and of course i want to see more about alleria and veressa who have been pretty much absent all expansion.
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And your complain over feeling surrounded by Belves on a rando battleground is a by the book example of a gameplay issue (as a matter of fact of a PERSONAL issue). No lore involvement whatsoever.
Wrong, no matter what side you chose, at the end you LITERALLY arrived at the same conclussion (heck, loyalist complained here over Nathanos making them participate in the EXACT SAME QUEST DESIGNED FOR THE REBELS. This is like the opposite of a “gameplay” feature, dude).
Hohoho, then pray tell why was so bad to make the Horde more appeling to the general gamer population back in TBC, but is apparently a crime that devs don´t give more benefits to the Alliance gameplay to get more people playing there?
I mean is only bad when the people gets more appeal to play Horde instead of Alliance? Cause is literally thge same issue, dude.
Says the poster actually writting hypothetical scenarios in which the elves from the Horde are booted in the allied race thread…
The one petitioning for a Horde race with more seniority than the Zanda trolls or the Goblins to gtfo is not me but you, dear…
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Ethel, with the already incoherent premise of Talanji flying in heroic desperation to save Bwonsamdi (mega LOL, wasn´t she sassing him when she became queen if my memory is right?) I don´t expect anything decent… just a sad attempt to make the meme and the “stronk female” trope more “endearing” to the Hordies.
A bad strategy, making us interact with Zekhan while toning down his whole Sadfang arc (ergo making him look actually invested in the future of the Horde and not the naive idealistic part of it) would had been a better way to make him grow as a character (he NEEDS to grow on us… and shortcuts are a no-no. This is a forced shortcut narratively speaking).
As you brilliantly put it, this narrative would had been better recieved with Rokhan -I mean Talanji and Rokhan working together efficiently and cordially already happened, so indeed it´s more believable to use him for that story-.
Respectfully disagree… the Windrunner are the bane from the elf character roster, the game would be better without ANY of them (do you know why Lirath is the best Windrunner? cause he had the decency of dying before becoming a meme).
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well, i mentioned in how she interest me in how she can improve the alliance story in any way. not sure if it would really benefit the horde story since i legit don’t know.
i mean, yeah, but in time one gets used to it, i would be fool to believe that blizzard still cares at all about their story after this expansion.
i mean, we are in this forum still for a reason,right?.
because,even in all this mess i legit still find ways to enjoy some of the things that blizzard presents me.
is like fast food, you know that is bad but i still consume it because i love it and probably hate myself!.
is not like i have much of a choice anyway, you either accept it or you just stop giving them money.
Yeah i don’t think that killing characters for no reason is a good alternative at all.
i am not the biggest windrunner fan but even i think that those 2 deserve a story.
and just killing them because blizzard has some garbage writters is unnaceptable. because in the end maybe i can’t simply let them go.
yeah poor me, whatever.
This is going to be the first WoW novel that I’ve read for a long time, and that’s specifically because of the focus on trolls. I think it’s a nice change of pace to what Blizzard usually has for novels.
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Read a better book then and look up the synopsis on wowhead later.
Why do people have problems with Zappy-boi? I like that Blizzard made him an actual character just because their fans liked him in a cinematic.
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Me. I asked for this.
Not for Zekhan specifically, but for fresh new characters to replace the massive number of main characters the Horde has lost over these expansions. This is how that happens. They introduce new characters into minor roles and if those characters are well received they give them bigger roles and flesh them out more.
On top of that he’s a TROLL character. The Darkspear roster has been middling between one and zero major characters for the entire life time of this game. Their only representative in the story being their racial leader Vol’jin while most other characters have two or three major representatives at worst and a dozen or more at best.
Rokhan got some good screen time in BfA. Still not enough to replace Vol’jin but it was a start. Zekhan also got a little spot light and now he’s being given a major role in a novel. This is building up the Darkspear roster and goes a long way to repairing the mess they created when they decided to axe the only major Darkspear character in the entire franchise.
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Their addition to the Horde involved lore. Lore which I thought was incoherent considering their historical association with the Alliance.
So what? You still get an extra cutscene choosing the loyalist side. It was something they added to the gameplay.
Correct. I’m using the story forums to speak my opinions about the story. It just differs from your opinions about “Sadfang” or whatever it is you find to be really important to complain about.
It did work okay in WC3, and then Classic. Does anybody in this forum not find the Horde story in WC3 to be one of the top moments of this franchises story telling?
Hmm I quite beg to differ with your interpretation of Lorash. He screams “edgelord elf guy who just wants to kill” to me. Still, I’ll take that as “I enjoyed part of the War of Thorns”.
It’s more to point out that she has been their main representative. My point was also simply to point out they are elves, they are a traditional fantasy “good guy” race… especially since we can’t forget prior to Arthas they were literally high elves. Them becoming blood elves made them a tiny bit different, and even then the things that made them different have kind of been swept back away. They weren’t a traditionally monster race being given a human touch (human, as in RL human, as in capable of being empathized with), which is what the foundation of the Horde is suppose to be imo starting with WC3.
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Yeah, I’m not gonna window dress this. I mostly wrote that line so I could type “hot-topic Legolas.” I used the Zappy-boi name because I couldn’t be arsed to look up or remember how to spell Zekhan.
BUT, since it got brought up, I don’t hate Zap-chan. Him as a book character has no more impact on me than some rando make-em-up-for-the-book. He’s just barely there. A few Horde quests he’s in, one cinematic that matters, one where he was a rando red shirt that managed to survive. There’s nothing there to hate. It’s fine. Very neutral.
But if the book was about not-space Kerrigan? I would have rolled my eyes hard enough to pop a blood vessel. So, “could be worse.”
EDIT: Clarifying a sentence because I just woke up and haven’t even drunk a thumb of my energy drink yet.
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The “humane” heroic part of the Orc portrayal didn’t survive WC3. They devolved into jerk warmongers literally on vanilla (I mean… The whole conflict with the Nelves after basically saving the world with them 2 min ago was a devolution). And Forsaken were never portrayed as heroic, they were firmly on the anti-hero path since the start.
WC3 was indeed a little about subverting the usual “monstruos = evil” trope, but this didn’t survive that game. On the other hand, the “fall in disgrace, commit questionable stuff cause desperate and slowly trying to get back up while attempting redemption”? Yeah, trope is basically the bread and butter of Horde allegiances in this game (and yup, this happened in WC3 too).
The surviving trope from WC3 wasn’t the subverted monster trope. No, at the end the foundation of the Horde post WC3 is more about people (regardless of how they look) getting themselves back up again after being lost thanks to causality or desperation. It is a tale about not perfect people but actually morally questionable people trying to redeem themselves in the eyes of the world.
The reason why Orcs and Trolls and Taurwn bonded was basically cause they helped each other at a crucial time for their survival, no more and no less.
In regards to Lorash, I don’t expect you to feel endeared to his portrayal nor much less an honest appreciation of the character. You and your siamese have shown to be incredibly narrowminded and obtuse in regards to any idea outside your own niche vision of the Horde. I don’t expect an honest opinion from the guy that says he’s the most hardcore Hordie dver while he trashes Vol’jin for the most ridiculous things ever.
And Liadrin was a non entity from WotLK to MoP, so to say she’s the Belf face is an exageration and a deliberately dishonest approach. You guys should really start to apply some actual ethics to your arguments.
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Because he was portrayed innocently, that’s why people love him so much. Because he was an innocent voice that has also suffered losses and now with straight stands for the mistakes of the past, a young life, which is blamed for it and has to defend itself.
Yet, he is and remains colorless beyond that, limiting him to being young is the same as with Anduin, is he supposed to become the next perfect character? In the end he loses his apeal again.
Ze’khan has finally become a symbol for BFA and its plot itself. The only problem is that the whole addon was all about the Horde and now Ze’khan feels that this next addon will be about that as well, and from a PR point of view after the catastrophe of BFA this is probably one of the reasons why it will drive more players away.
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Even then, however, the Redemption Arc was advanced at the expense of the Alliance- Arc.
Blizz could have also gone over to showing Daelin as a genocidal monster, they could have shown him in the right, then this whole plot wouldn’t have worked out anymore, so to put the Horde back in perspective, to make redemption possible, an Alli-Char became a monster.
Let’s get away from the narrative and just list the facts of what happened.
Daelin pursued the Horde to Kalimdor after it stole alliance ships, murdered women, children and men, groups of orcs still ravaged the land of lordaeron and even sacrificed these to demons in WC3, (orcs were NOT innocent).
So even in WC3, there were still many reasons to condemn the orcs. Then they saved the world, and suddenly all sins are supposed to be gone? Redemption doesn’t work that way, especially not if that redemption is not obtained against those who have been wronged.
and now…in bfa we have the same problem.
Players will never participate in a true Redemption Arc with the argument “I can’t help it that blizzard did that” because that would be hard, incredibly cruel, you would be portrayed as wrong and guilty, and you would have to endure it because it would be right.
Redemption is incredibly hard to achieve. So, because it is, this artificial redemption is going to feel like a slap in the face. If I switched roles, and say Orgrimmar had been wiped out, would you say that what the Alliance - if the Alliance had lost the same thing that the Horde has lost now - would have done enough to achieve redemption? I think not.
At least I wouldn’t feel that way.And because that’s so…I expect more than just an “all Sylvanas guilt”, because honestly, I don’t want to play a faction with feelings of guilt and shame.
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Well, one could argue the followers of Thrall gtfo of the EK is a bizarre attempt at redemption (humans did want to get to live in peace on their lands, and Thrall did want for his people to go back at a more level headed mind landscape), but indeed even in WC3 there were questionable elements in the Horde (Grom being the most notable one).
That’s why imho the trope is more about trying over and over and slowly improving over time, not merely about perfectly good monstruos looking individuals.
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My point here is that even WC3 never achieved redemption against those the Horde had previously harmed.
I’m tired of half-baked Redemptions Arcs, just do it right, nothing will ever get better, old hate can never go away if it’s always half-baked.
I want to go beyond this point after BFA, now you’ve (blizz) set the setting, now do a real redemption arc, otherwise everything else would have been a waste of fan love that had been sacrificed with BFA anyway
I don’t want to experience the same thing as the night elves experienced, or Theramore. But at this point, I still have to say, hell, I even deserve it.
Because blizz really refuses to go the hard way…out of false pride of the fanbase.
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Indeed, devs caved quite harshly to their own WC2 mentality. It just became more obvious and bothersome since Cata.
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