With the upcoming significant nerfs to Prot (among other classes), it begs the question: why? Why are we nerfing classes rather than bringing the rest of the classes up to the same level as the “OP” classes? This is just bad game design/decisions by the devs. It only leads to class disparity, and fosters a sense of FOTM classes that have plagued this game for ages. Get your s*it together Blizz, and maybe try actually making the game fun again rather than forcing people to play specific classes in order to run high end content.
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Because if 1 spec is an outlier from the rest it makes more sense to just bring that outlier in line with the other specs than to buff every single spec (and every single enemy mob as well to match the now across the board increase in all specs).
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With that said… buff Brewmaster
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because buffing every class to op status to the outlier of prot paladin is dumb and very unhealthy. btw the nerfs to prot paladin is 9% aoe while its defensive ability is unchanged if you know how to play it properly
if you cant perform at the same level of keys after these nerfs then you are being hard carried by the outlier class and thus shouldnt be in those keys to begin with
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It is logically impossible to achieve balance by enhancing other classes because if everyone becomes strong, even relatively minor differences—such as functional disparities like mobility skills (e.g., Blink and Teleport)—will inevitably lead to imbalance.
Moreover, the so-called ‘fun’ is also impossible to achieve. Unique skills that highlight a class’s characteristics inevitably create differences, and differences lead to balance issues, causing some classes to be abandoned. The only solution is to significantly homogenize the classes and reduce specialization options, which would allow for more reasonable numerical design.
Additionally, if the goal is simply to ensure players have fun, the solution is straightforward—make gear acquisition easier. Give everyone a chance to tackle well-designed dungeons driven by honor and achievements rather than gear rewards. In Final Fantasy XIV, obtaining gear takes only about ten minutes, which is why so many players are motivated to challenge its high-difficulty content. By contrast, World of Warcraft comes across as overly stingy in this regard. Most of the frustration players experience stems from this issue.
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Ah I see you actually are just going past to post and trolling. Reported. I suggest everyone reports this person and discontinues feeding them.
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Because it is genuinely dumb to let classes/spec being egregiously stronger than their peers.
It’s bad for the overall health of the game from short to long term.
Prot defensive tuning was mostly adressed when a bunch of stuff went baseline.
Furthermore, it is mostly a DPS nerf, if you were banking on a shield armament proc to survive a pull, you were doing something wrong.
This is a warranted nerf.
Other people already pointed out the flaws in buffing everyone else when it’s only 1 outlier overperforming and they are right in their assessment.
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We’re in a place where, outside of some outliers, most classes in the DPS category (and tank) are performing so close to the median that certain outliers are extremely noticeable. Fire on the low end, for example, Enhancement Shaman and Protadin on the high end. it’s healthier to reel them in, and this change also won’t affect 99.9% of players in any meaningful way.
Play what you like, what you find fun, stop worrying about ‘The Meta’. Hell, dude, my main is Holy Priest lmfao.
Additionally, if the goal is simply to ensure players have fun, the solution is straightforward—make gear acquisition easier. Give everyone a chance to tackle well-designed dungeons driven by honor and achievements rather than gear rewards. In *Final Fantasy XIV*, obtaining gear takes only about ten minutes, which is why so many players are motivated to challenge its high-difficulty content. By contrast, *World of Warcraft* comes across as overly stingy in this regard. Most of the frustration players experience stems from this issue.
Okay, gotta say my bit on this, too. FFXIV’s gearing is - realistically - not the same beast as WoW. Getting to the basic item level necessary to enter content in FFXIV is extremely expedient, yes, however; actually improving your character’s gear is not.
WoW’s biggest problem on this front is informational clarity. It doesn’t tell you outright that you can get a heroic crest from killing Storymode Ansurek, for example. It doesn’t tell you that doing bountiful delves guarantees one piece of champion gear, or that you can exchange bloody tokens to fill in early, missing slots on a fresh 80.
I find gearing in WoW to, on the whole, be much more expedient and user friendly than FFXIV. The main problem is that it expects the player to know what they’re looking for, already.
The nerfs are kinda bad ngl. Prot pally isn’t the tankiest tank, its dmg and utilities are the reason high key pushers use it. I am fine with nerfing dmg, but nerfing prot pally’s self-heal is a horrible solution.
2 Likes
Just don’t touch Holy plz, kkthxbye!
You can thank the whiners on general who don’t play Prot Paladin for the nerfs.
That being said, where tf are the buffs for Brewmaster then Blizz?
(last post was quoted improperly)
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Yup. Whenever a paladin becomes viable, the general populace comes out at us with torches and pitchforks (although the damage nerf to prot was warranted).
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In theory, nerfs aren’t bad.
Overnerfs are the problem. When prot pally is a must have tank and receive a lot of nerfs, it’s a probem on Blizz HQ.
When holy paladin received several weeks of nerfs on DF season 2, it’s a Blizz HQ problem.
They can’t or they don’t know a middle point between meta classes and trash ones.
They are too extremist with paladin changes. Meanwhile Evoker and Shaman nerfs are more bug fixes than anything else.
It doesn’t make sense that they nerf a class because the <1% of players who do 15s and higher are using it. It would make sense for them to nerf DH, when it was clearly shown to be the (still) superior tank among tanks for 10s-12s in MDI. I mean, yea, there were a couple of runs that used pally in MDI, but VDH was main go-to tank for nearly every team due to its pretty high damage, self sustain, and insane control. Yet blizz hasn’t even looked in their direction. Makes no sense. Nerfing prot pally just makes it more difficult for the average player who only wants to get 10s done on said prot pally. I find myself running out of mana during keys where the healer is garbage, which is INSANE for a tank. No other tank has resource issues like pally does, and holy bulwark was just fine where it was. Making us have to WOG more just makes the class feel clunky af, especially when we start running into mana issues and having to trade holy power that could be used on SotR for WOG instead.
Short of it, I agree with you. Just venting here cuz prot pally holds a special place in my heart.
prot pally feels garbage and is literally bad unless aug/disc/enhance is in the group on higher keys - the same keys everyone is using as evidence
anyone who says otherwise isnt looking at the real reason prot paladin is at the top - all of these classes cover prots weakness which is survivability/mitigation vs melee (disc/aug) and lower damage by bringing aug is negated by enhance (enhance does 3m+ overall dps with pi blasts covering the aug lmao)
Prot cant do damage while dead and pain supps/aug cover mitigation + bleed windows on prot paladin in higher keys and allow prot to pull big for dps
“HuR DuR PrOt Op” is just a tip of the iceberg look from players who don’t understand why every top group comp has these 3 other classes and want an easy target to blame and witch hunt for nerfs which for some reason is always paladin season over season
What exactly are these nerfs? It’s not posted in the PTR sub.
Edit: Oh I see this is 2 weeks old.
It most definitely was not “significant nerfs”.
This is 100% from poor play.
Just a tiny problem with that train of thoughts, Augmentation are brought with other tanks too, regardless of it being a Prot pally.
Which suggest Aug is brought for his “own” strength and not to specifically cover Prot weaknesses.
While I wouldn’t go that far, I do share the sentiment the design is flawed.
I’ll repeat this every chance I get, this iteration is patchwork of designs of different eras and unfinished ideas.
We were spamming SotR in SL.
Blizzard tried to lessen that in DF by removing HP from Avenger shield but didn’t put any talent to support this play style of SotR dropping, save inner light.
Meanwhile they left all the talents encouraging us to spam SotR in the tree.
They didn’t even introduce another spender which could have achieve a similar outcome to what they aimed for.
Now they are stuck tunning it each season to make it so their defensive CD’s, which are imperatives, are up often enough so that they are viable.
Which means buffs early and most likely nerfs later on.
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Poor play? Am I playing poorly when I get into a +10 with a healer who can barely break 400k hps and have to SPAM THE HELL outta WoG on myself just to stay alive – with defensives – running out of mana by the 2nd pull? Clearly that’s a sign of poor play. You’re missing the point buddy, mana issues on prot pally are real. I’m not the only one complaining about them either. No other tank has resource issues like prot pally currently does.
As for the nerfs, yes, they were significant. Nearly 10% on aoe dmg + the proc rate on holy bulwark being reduced is considered significant by any measure. To put this in perspective, holy bulwark used to do 120mill + in healing overall by the end of a +10. Now it barely even reaches 90mill, and that’s if I’m lucky with what few procs I get. Imagine this had been done to any other tank – they’d be furious as well. You’re living in a sheltered world if you think otherwise.
Using HPS as a metric is horrid. There are runs in +8s where the healer pumps out 800k+ overall and +13s where the healer does 500k.
So yes, it is poor play if you are going oom. You are spamming WoG and most likely letting SoTR fall off because you are using up Holy Power for WoG among other glaring issues for why you are taking in so much damage.
This is 100% a skill issue. How is it that I have never stopped to drink from +2 all the way to +13 while you are going OOM on the 2nd pull?
It literally did not have a significant impact.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/atX49mnhpFLvf8JP#fight=3&type=healing
+10 NW healer with 415k overall HPS and 36.85% overheal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TnzktVWhGfgwQ71v#fight=7&type=healing
+10 NW healer with 485k overall HPS and 46.09% overheal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BZg82TaFfRCz7wKP#fight=1&type=healing
+11 SoB healer with 558k overall HPS and 56.34% overheal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Wv7AK6gzF4THwL3N#fight=6&type=healing
+11 SoB healer with 656k overall HPS and 39.01% overheal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CXAaYy1W8cZKTgHQ#fight=3&type=healing
+10 Mist healer with 390k overall HPS and 46.76% overheal
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HkQwr9ZbBf8mcvyD#fight=92&type=healing
+10 Mist healer with 499k overall HPS and 43.13% overheal