Blizzard can we just talk about this real quick? One of ret’s big strengths in keys is our ability to offer potentially life saving off heals in a pinch. It’s something that we’ve had in our kit for a long while now and just gutting Healing Hands out of no where feels very bad. You want to also increase the mana cost of Wog, fine. I can certainly understand if you do not want ret to be able to continually pump large heals into our party. But, adding the increased mana cost to Wog and also removing Wog’s benefit from the talent is just too much. Word of glory when not buffed by healing hands likely will not be worth the 3 holy power. Can we please find a happy medium?
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I agree but believe its too late for PTR changes.
I spoke on my dissatisfaction about the healing hands nerf in muktiple places.
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Not that I agree with the changes myself but…
If I may give you perspective on this.
What they seem to be doing is transfer the healing power on to Flash of Light.
They buffed it by 35%, the selfless healer increase the heal on allies by an additional 30% and 40% of the heal is dealt to you.
Light Celerity increase the heal by an additional 20% but there’s a 6sec CD.
Now with all of this, it would do roughly the same healing an unbuffed WoG would do on allies plus it heals you for 40%.
WoG (at my Ilvl) heals for 712k so 1.4 million if the target is low on health so 2.8 million on crits.
That really makes a difference.
And keep in mind it’s still there for yourself.
FoL would heal for 767k plus 300k or so on me, supposing I need it.
2.1 million on a crit…
And the way our class tree works now, taking selfless healer is not that hard.
You could also not take Light Celerity and spam it.
In my case that would be about 900k healing per cast, again supposing I also need the healing.
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Transferring the power to FoL is fine and all, but something that came up in other topics was Blizz apparent desire of changing how hybrids heal to not change their Damage profile. - I.e. When you use WoG, you use Holy Power, this is supposed to be your Damage Resource silly DPS spec.
This falls apart when you realize FoL is a cast or a once every 6 sec, so its either locking yourself into chain casts (0% active DPS - Damage Profile extremely changed) or you get 1 “WoG” when before you had the option to heal multiple people effectively (If, for a short time and very mana intensively)
I am just not a fan of this design choice. Rets still all have the “Paladin” buttons, but being short term triage healers was an actual effective niche playstyle that is getting effectively removed rather than balanced.
Yep.
So technically you use your builders then WoG, then use builders again and wog again.
You loose DPS but you’re still using builders in between.
FoL with light celerity does kind of the same but you get to keep you HP and 6 sec is longer than building back 3HP.
So some kind of trade off.
Without Light Celerity, you just hard cast FoL and do f*** all DPS.
My guess is that the real intent is that we’re suppose to play it with Light Celerity.
At the same time, the only situations where I see Selfless healer really shining are in situation where you would want to spam FoL.
Like AoE healing intensive phase say like second boss of Dawnbreaker.
I target my healer and let him keep everyone else alive for example.
Light’s Celerity is the…
Its just bad and I’m sad man
Healing an ally once every 6 seconds is the most paltry form of off healing I can imagine. I’m going to use it, because its on my bars -it might even be helpful once.
Blessing of Sacrifice will work better for telegraphed events. Lay on Hands will work better for emergency heals. WoG will still work better when you need to heal multiple targets.
FoL is going to be such a chore to press
Going to complain some more cause its good for the soul. (Its not, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯ )
Prot will now have more effective other target off healing than Ret. Maybe that’s okay, maybe that’s even intended -but what’s left for Ret?
“Why bring a Ret when you can bring a Prot?”
“Well duh you need damage!”
“But Ret has pretty bad priority damage and Paladin utility has Forbearance, and doubling up on Paladins is inefficient”
“Huh yknow that makes sense - maybe lets just never take a Ret if we can get a Prot”
If the only thing Ret has over Prot is damage - then take a DPS that does more Damage, Ret is not supposed to be at the top of the pack damage wise.
Holy is getting Unbound Freedom, Prot is looking to be S or A Tier for another season, Ret is losing something that encouraged helping teammates. Dang Blizz take me to dinner first.
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I went back and looked through the talents and see what you’re saying. I have the same concerns as Yekal about Light’s Celerity, but I understand where you’re coming from. I’m going to immediately try our FoL talents when we get online tonight. Here’s hoping it works out well enough.
Vent it all out brother!
They don’t balance around utility or ease of play.
For one because utility is very subjective and secondly because from a group management perspective, you don’t want a group who just need an additional DPS to go over some specs because they are purposefully tuned lower to account for marginal off-healing or whatever.
Like, Spriest is always a spec that ends up having lots of off-healing yet it didn’t preclude them from being a top DPS spec in season 2 of Dragonflight.
Sure if you don’t have Lust or a specific buff that would help, you might want to snatch a specific class but overall and at least for heroic raid, you don’t need all the buffs.
But I get your point, Ret never brought something the other 2 spec didn’t already bring so to me the situation doesn’t change.
Both of them have things that are either equal or flat out better than what Ret has.
I don’t know what they could realistically do with the kit that we have to make it distinct is a specific way from Holy and Prot.
From the name and theme, maybe if it had some retaliatory mechanic triggered by someone taking damage that wasn’t a raid wide effect like Ret aura was.
Something more pointed to have an impact.
It could even be a “blessing” to satisfy some people that wish to see this come back.
What if Retribution had a specific niche role of supporting the tanks?
Bringing back Blessing of King that increases the survivability of the tank or give it a % damage thorn effect where it would redirect a % of damage done to the attacker.
I know this is OG ret aura but it was always kind of bad since it was tuned so low.
Being a targeted 1 person blessing would open the door to be actually potent.
Idk, throwing stuff out there.
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It’s not that bad. I’ve been using since the start, on our bear tank I’ve crit them 2 million and I get a nice mill back because of their mastery, great.
It’s saved plenty of squishier people during Mythic+'s. A FoL crit most certainly saved lots and lots of lives over the season keeping them from keeling over from that last tick of AoE channels.
At the end of the day, it’s not a lot of healing but it’s enough to top someone off while pulling the next group or save someone from impending doom.
Having thorns would be sick.
Sign you up for my keys!! :).
Did a run the other day with a [bad] ret and he was trying to blame everything on me, the heals. The guy didn’t clear his own devouring affix a single time…
You can feel the presence of great rets that use their utility and off heals well instead of just tunneling.
I’m genuinely glad it usable -as I said, I’m going to probably use it, and I’m going to try and maximize its effectiveness (as in all things during play)
…Its just, Healing Hands was so cool bro. It was a A+ Talent.
Giving WoG bonus healing on lower health targets gave Ret some gosh dang
s k i l l - e x p r e s s i o n
Yea, you’re playing Ret, your primary focus is dps, but you are also a Paladin, in fact you are a Retribution Paladin. Milliseconds after your teammate gets hit, they drop to 20% HP, the healer is still casting, the DoTs are ticking,
…-BOOM Phat Crit WoG swoops in and saves the day. You timed it right for max value. You saw the situation and made sure you WoG’ed the target that will need it. Maybe even LoH another Target if its needed. Great Success.
…
You go back to building Holy Power/doing Dmg and the Healer gives you a small nod of acknowledgment.
Light’s Celerity isn’t bad, its just not got that spell transformative element I’m already finding myself missing. I’ll use FoL on any target (prioritizing the lowest HP) every 6 seconds and go about my day. I will do this every 6 seconds until people are at full health. This is just wack-a-mole…
“A timer goes off
Every six seconds Oh Boy
Time to push FoL again” -A Haiku titled “Missing you Healing Hands”
Its become a maintenance button rather than a minigame.
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Lmao at the people putting up with “is not that bad”. Spec gets gutted every patch and you just take it like a good lemming
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Literally everyone on this thread said they didn’t like that change.
What are you talking about?
Discussing alternatives is not condoning what they did nor is it hiding from the fact that it is that bad.
There’s little left to do after telling them it feels bad beside discussing how to move forward.
Stop trolling.
A lot of people said i5 was a bad change
But it was also a bad niche to have. So not really gonna miss it much
I really like “reactive triage healer” for WoG on teammates/healing Hands - was there other discussions that stated people didn’t like this playstyle?
So I ran around in a couple of keys tonight. My off healing in combat didn’t feel good, but thinking that could just be me knowing I would not like missing those chonky WoG’s I figured it would be best to just get through the content and then look through my meters at the end of the night. So, my largest crit on FoL was 1.8 million…that’s not great compared to the WoG’s we were throwing before the patch. That also is not including the heal we get from Selfless Healer by casting the FoL on someone else, but that is not going to be life saving. I dunno, I’m not gonna sit here and yell the sky is falling, just slightly bummed. Because again, the limiter on our WoG usage was already the mana cost so gutting the heal just feels so unnecessary. My overall healing was very, very small compared to what it was before today. I guess on the bright side, I got to taunt and laugh at the hunter I regularly have in my group and show off all the healing I wasn’t doing to him.
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I’m trying out Light’s Celerity, and boy I am not a fan.
Seeing big number from a Crit WoG is so much nicer than repeated small number from FoL - I wish Blizz could have found a way to keep Healing Hands
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Yeah I’m really kicking myself right now because I completely ignored the ptr and had I known this was coming I would have joined you in the good fight to make noise about it.
thats fine, but its really not something you as a dps should actually do.
reactive healing is good and nice, but spaming wog multiple times isnt reactive healing. its just you spamming wog to heal
How is it a bad niche. Enhance can throw a lot more powerful healing surges and it only costs maelstorm weapon stacks that they are flooding with. Stormbringer enhance is gcd locked literally.
WoG costs mana and holy power (damage)
Ret is a hybrid and has always brought its offhealing with it. If ret losses its healing then what sets it apart from a warrior or dh?