Nerf starsurge! this is a joke!

WoW Classic Season of Discovery
342

Quoted for truth, at 60 balance might be the hardest class to play, no arguing that, you need macros just to smooth out shifting during GCD etc. In vanilla I was one of the few people that thought gear equity was better than reducing our molten core run time by .001% and so I was Master looting boomkins staff of dominance and robe of volatile power if I had the chance to.

I have a friend who only plays this game because I play, and when he can walk into WSG and be top kills and killing blows over and over again, and on top of that actually contribute reasonable damage from an extremely unrisky position it says a lot. He himself admits that most encounters he is just tapping a few buttons and bodies hit the floor.

I have a mage, resto shaman, priest, hunter

I’ve leveled like 8 or 10 mages to 60 over various “other servers” and different iterations of wow.
I’ve had a hunter at 49 and 70, mage up to MOP or WOD.
I played a druid up to late 30’s or 49 I forget which
warrior to 49 and then 60 in tbc

I don’t target druids out of tribalism, I’ve played a lot of different video games and tabletop and when a mechanic is powerful and offers very little decision making by both parties it has to be very well thought out or it will be bad.

Starsurge is low risk and high reward, which isn’t a deal breaker, but it is a deal breaker on a druid and in its current form.(range and cd)

That’s thought because why not win harder(assuming you meant wsg/pvp), but also sometimes you invest all your gear and talents into blasting people and it would be nice if you could just simply blast people.

The hunter cope is you sleep or root a pet with a natural 30 spell resistance and if you can’t do that in a group context you absolutely deserve to die in 3 seconds to the pet. There aren’t many other mechanics that are “so simple” to overcome until you muddy the waters with things like AOE breaking polymorph etc.

Imagine if insect swarm or living bomb would continuously spread until players spread out, that’s the level of tedium pets add to the game, IMO.

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343

I just want to be clear that I wasn’t singling you out with this reply. It’s just something I’ve noticed. Like, people playing affliction lock telling me they think I should have to work harder really bothers me. lol

I don’t target druids out of tribalism, I’ve played a lot of different video games and tabletop and when a mechanic is powerful and offers very little decision making by both parties it has to be very well thought out or it will be bad.

I didn’t mean to imply that you’re tribal, just trying to understand your POV.

The hunter cope is you sleep or root a pet with a natural 30 spell resistance and if you can’t do that in a group context you absolutely deserve to die in 3 seconds to the pet. There aren’t many other mechanics that are “so simple” to overcome until you muddy the waters with things like AOE breaking polymorph etc.

Imagine if insect swarm or living bomb would continuously spread until players spread out, that’s the level of tedium pets add to the game, IMO.

Hard agree, lol. Also one pet’s fine, but it’s never one pet if you’re a squishy. It’s always like 3 pets, and one’s a damned fel hunter, and you’re like welp, 3 people decided to have their NPC attack me so I guess I’ll die.

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Typically the 3% crit per caster isn’t worth the dps loss from taking the Moonkin in vanilla.

This may not be the case in SoD, but is currently looking that way with specs like Fire Mage doing 160% of a balance druid. I just don’t see 3% crit per party member making up that difference sadly.

345

NO

Stop nerfing EVERYTHING

we are BACK to WARRIORS being the be all of PVE

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346

Starsurge puts the Mana in Management.

347

Can you still kill a druid one v one? Yes
Can you kill a warlock 1 v 1 if they are continuously draining your life to get their life back?
Can you Free Action Pot a Avenging Shield or use an ability to prevent it other than moving away quickly
Can you avoid being Sheeped for long durations
Can you avoid being Sapped for long durations and getting locked in by a rogue (around max level 60)

Stop Crying and let Blizzard cook.

we are literally back to Warriors being superior in classic and all they do is leave their rage at max and go use the restroom on bosses.

348

Mages are going to be gutter tier. Warbringer is going to blow your mind when warriors get intercept as well.

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The “let them cook” argument doesnt work for me, because warriors “should” have been bad this phase. They had no instant attacks and no meaningful scaling. Instead the devs BENT OVER BACKWARDS and gave them absolutely cracked runes to keep them on top. Whatever class you are playing, do your runes compare to the power of warriors 20% damage multipler? To spammable quickstrike? To Raging blow? AND they have them a broken af deep wounds?

No, the devs are keeping warriors on top with intent. Its not like warriors stumbled into #1 this time. They got absolutely bonkers powerful runes to keep them on top at 25. By 40, they will have the deep talents that make them monsters. Wait and watch them fly.

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Oh i know.

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Warriors are never going to be bad when you zone into a raid with 3 worldbuffs and full consumes.

you can’t compare sod to leveling at 25 with half white/green gear.

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Its got nothing to do with worldbuffs or consumes. Warriors at 25 in classic dont have the features that made them overpowered. They dont have flurry, they dont have bloodlust, they dont have the rage to queue heroic strike, they dont have whirlwind. Blizzard gave them NEW TOOLS to make sure they scaled better than every other class at 25. It wasnt an accident.

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Yeah, warriors dominating in P1 does not bode well for the coming phases.

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Why? That doesn’t make much real sense. Warriors don’t scale well with level, they scale with gear in comparison to their level.

They absolutely had meaningful scaling as BFD gear is considerably better than usually accessible at this level, this meant they benefited more to compared to their rage conversion value, as well as their crit scaling based off agility.

It’s all based on their ratings for that level, hence why 100 damage from a melee at level 25 generates more than 100 damage from a melee at level 60, same as how 40 agi provides more crit chance at 25 than 40 agi at level 60.

The runes are just icing on the cake. With normal gear they don’t have the rage to easily activate Consumed by Rage, nor the rage to spend on Quickstrike.
It’s in combination with the gear that they are able to take advantage of these things, a non-geared warrior at 25 is still practically a free kill losing half health against a yellow mob.

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They have an abundance of rage. Rage generation is scales based on damage dealt comparative to level.

In a single 1m26s fight a warrior is able to use Quickstrike 30 times, Heroic Strike twice, Cleave 6 times, Overpower twice, and Execute once.

That is a minimum of 679 rage spent in 1m26s. They only performed 25 melee attacks during that time, that’s just over 27 rage per auto attack.

The “new tools” that warriors are using wouldn’t even be usable at 25 without the gear in BFD, and as some mentioned the bonus of stacking with world buffs.

I implore you to make a warrior and test it for yourself. Use the same runes, Raging Blow, Consumed by Rage, and Quickstrike and see how far that gets you without raid gear.
I can almost guarantee you will struggle to even pull multiple mobs or chain pull solo.

You just don’t have the rage generation or the crit in standard level 25 gear. That is why warriors have been historically bad at this point.

These warriors are rocking 180 strength and 114 agility vs the normal ~96 strength and 54 agility they would normally have at this level, that’s a whole lot more resource generation than they are used to having.

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This was my warrior in era.

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This is my warrior now.

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You say warriors dont scale with levels, but lets look at the sources of a 60 warriors damage.

  1. He is dual wielding, so he is getting 162.5% benefit of attack power (100% mainhand 62.5% offhand) and two weapons. Cool. Normal DW penalties apply.
  2. He gets flurry when he crits. So crit gives him more uptime on flurry, and flurry increases the power of his attackpower scaling. Now he is getting 130%*162.5% of the value of each attackpower.
  3. He gets Bloothirst. Okay, now he has an additional way to turn attackpower into damage every 6 seconds. Lets not get caught up in the math, but now each point of attackpower gives more dps than it did without bloodthirst.
  4. He can start queuing heroic strike. This eliminates the DW penalty (giving him 19% hit effectively) and eliminates glancing blows from his white hits. Once again, math math…but now each point of attackpower is becoming more damage than it was before.
  5. He gets whirldwind. Easy, just like bloodthirst he is turning more attackpower and bigger weapons into more damage than he would have without this ability.

What I mean is, at level 25 in era…a warrior just auto attacking can only turn 14 attackpower into about…1dps. He doesnt have attack speed stems or any instant attacks to turn each incremental 14 attackpower into 2 or 3dps like a warrior with all his tools. When I say “warriors should have been bad,” what I mean is that they didnt have all those other mechanics that multiplicatively stacked on top of each other to make their scaling or absolute damage really high.

In order to make them top dogs, blizz effectively gave them 1 big attack per 8 seconds with no rage cost, a spammable ability with smiliar damage/rage conversion of blood thirst and a 20% damage multiplier. Those are all INCREDIBLY powerful runes compared to what most other classes got. Furthermore, they have THREE runes that give 10, 20 or 25% damage multpliers. When they get the rest of their normal kit, they will scale so, so, SO much harder than other classes with gear. Blizzard gave warriors and entire kit from runes at 25 to make sure there damage was highest.

Edit: To add insult to injury, they also gave alliance warriors windfury.

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359

I don’t think you quite understand what I mean by that.
An ungeared warrior at 60 is almost equally weak against an equivalent mob as it is at 25.

Rage generation is based on level, the higher the level the more damage you need to do to gain rage. Same with combat ratings like critical strikes and main stat conversions.
There is almost a normalisation curve across the board as you level.

Warriors become good whenever you can gear past the expected stat ratings for your level.
Hence why you have warriors generating 27 rage per auto attack.
That is not caused by Quickstrike, nor is that caused by Raging Blow.

Same with Deep Wounds, yes it was a terrible idea to change to WotLK stacking, but that is also possible due to the inflation of stats from gear at this level, namely BFD raid loot.
All that additional agi turns to a lot more crit than you would expect at 25, and more crit = more Deep Wounds.
If warriors were critting only 5% of the time it wouldn’t nearly be as significant.

Without that increased rage generation from additional damage on hit and additional chance to crit, warriors quite simply wouldn’t have the rage to cast Quickstrike more times than they auto attack.

It’s a combination of both scaling and runes, but primarily scaling, as without the scaling they simply wouldn’t be able to take advantage of the runes in the way that they do.

The runes in general for SoD are bad, just look at the best performing classes even outside warrior.
All of the classes that were meta are performing the best, why? Probably because unlike the non-meta specs that required all 3 runes to simply be playable, the meta specs that already performed well simply got extra tools that they could take advantage of to create an even larger gap.

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And warriors have runes that give them direct % damage increases. Which means more rage. They will be scaling even harder at 60.

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Well. The hunter runes a pretty crappy as a whole, the thing proping the class up is more so the base hunter class and the pets actually having some scaling.

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