If you go in with a ilvl 80 Vers/Mast staff and an ilvl 210 Vers/Mast staff… it should be the same.
Things like gem sockets, use effects, scaling of summoned pet damage etc… they are all messed up. Some things scale with versatility for example, that simply didn’t in the past because there was no such thing as versatility when they released.
I believe things like Nibellung are currently being used with vers stacking to pump up the pets to do quite insane damage because they scale incorrectly. Same with the Barov Peasant caller (which is gettable at level 50 ilvl, of course, because chromie time…)
As another example the Claws of Ursoc and feral artifact weapons allow you to use two oils and two enchants because your technically dual wielding them. They might have the same stats as a level 50 green, but you can double up on the power additions.
To be clear, I’m fine with the tuning (even if it does seem a bit high to me personally) but when you have things that are “kind of but not really” exploits it becomes a bit disheartening. I know quite a few who got the tower from doing actual encounter-breaking exploits with the Soul Trap, and some who are farming up completely broken items like a certain trinket with an hour cooldown that summons pets immune to aoe damage for 10 minutes and scales with versatility…
Yes, which is what we were discussing : Dauntless vs Legion vs SL gear. Mostly stat sticks.
This isn’t what I was discussing with him at all. He said he tested Dauntless gear. It’s ilvl 50 stat sticks. Maybe it can roll Sockets, I don’t remember. Benthic would be the same, though I know it can roll sockets because that was a thing in EP, rolling for BiS Benthic socketed gear in some slots for the effect (which would be inactive in MT, so there’s it’s just a stat stick with a free socket).
I know of the other things you talk about, that’s not what I was asking Murphy. He specifically “tested” different stat sticks where the outcome on a pure “ok, these have the same stat amounts” would be apparent without testing :
It’s precisely because it awards a cosmetic that it should be difficult. Player power is one thing since that literally impacts the character. Cosmetics do not, which means if it’s locked behind a challenge then that’s fine.
Again, though, they nerf everything at one point or another and I just get so tired of the bad skilled players or, no offense to you, but others who want something but have to have it handed to them more. Again, no disrespect here, it just gets maddening how easy things get and how every time something is solo content, it has to be nerfed into the ground to the point it’s just mindlessly numbing to do.
There’s people of all skill levels playing this game and I don’t want every single piece of content, especially solo content, dumbed down so the lowest common denominator can do it. No, that’s way too easy and mind numbingly boring. No challenge in that. Yes, there’s a middleground but people don’t want to or can’t comprehend that blizzard, in mostly everything here, doesn’t operate on a middleground. They’ve not gotten it correct at all neither this expansion nor any other.
They operate on too difficult or too mega easy, so again, while there is a middleground they just don’t hit that nail on the head. Also, once they start tuning this it becomes like this:
Player A has high skill and completes challenge. Player B asks for nerfs because they can’t do it. Blizz nerfs it so player B can do it, now player C still can’t do it because they’re worse than players A and B. Now they nerf it for player C, which now D complains they still can’t do it. By the time they nerf it so player Z can do it it’s literally a 1 shot thing as if it were actually legacy content like running Deadmines on a level 60 character. That’s my reasoning for not wanting it to be nerfed. It doesn’t stop until everyone can 1 shot it to which why not just give players the skins upon logging in at that point. No reason to have something like that in the game, then.
That would fit into the “testing enchants” rather than testing gear part. Also not something that requires “testing”, you know ilvl 66 = dead in the water for old enchants, no need to zone in and test.
Warforged would actually harm you as you couldn’t put old enchants on it.
Socketed gear is socketed gear. No difference between a Korthia socketed piece and a Warforged Dauntless socketed piece.
Why? I like that Blizzard left weird niche items in the game that can be used to make the challenge easier.
Not everyone has equal skill levels. Sure some people are walking in and just ez mode blasting the tower down in their Shadowlands gear (I did this with the boomy tower cuz that’s what I main in mythic raid), but I couldn’t seem to beat the Guardian DPS check with my dom sockets etc. I had to step back and actually think about making a gear set to optimize the challenge.
It was fun making my gearset, and afterwards I was able to beat the challenge on a spec I don’t main with an assist from some overpowered gear. I focused on getting the easier to obtain items first, like a few pieces of crafted PvP gear to replace my useless dom socket equipment. Had I still been unable to complete the challenge, I probably would have farmed my Legion artifact weapon.
I think the system in place is really good because it gives you a meaningful path of progression optimizing your Timewalking set. Not everyone is going to be Nerftank or whoever and just do the challenge raw, and having an avenue where players can devote time into optimizing their gear allows for a wider range of players to engage with the content.
In Legion the good players did the challenge in Nighthold gear. Everyone else had to wait for ToS or even Antorus and farm up a set to make it easier. Same thing in Shadowlands…in fact might I suggest farming the very same raids in Antorus and ToS…the gear is ilvl 50 and can roll a socket, and you have some very strong trinkets like umbral moonglaives.
TLDR: I don’t find it disheartening at all. Disheartening would be a flat stat template and if you just don’t have the DPS and there is absolutely nothing you can do as a player to improve your character power.
Sounds to me like Blizzard released content that is fun and engaging to the point where people are playing WoW again and actually motivated to go farm things to complete said content. People playing WoW and farming up timewalking sets is not a bad thing. You don’t need them to complete the tower, but the vast majority of the playerbase, including myself, will find using some degree of cheesy items useful. So farm away my friends, and I’m glad to see you all back on WoW actually playing the game and having fun.
I have well over 230 pulls on Guardian MT at this point. Honestly I don’t think it needs to be nerfed to the ground but that it does need some tuning. Kruul’s hp possibly lowered a bit more would be the biggest thing. I know it’s definitely doable now, I’ve had wipes at 5% and below. My best attempt being Kruul at 57hp though I did not claim the W there. And I don’t normally play druid in any aspect. Haven’t tried any other MT challenges yet cause I want the bear form.
No offense taken. Like I said I completed it. But it was difficult, made doubly so because of my condition. There are lots of situations out there and there’s never going to be a one size fits all. But something like this should probably be one size fits most.
There’s already elite content out there (Mythic raiding, Mythic keys, high level pvp). Something like this could very easily be for the masses. Again just my opinion.
But isn’t that why we have the Trial of Style, Christmas outfits, 3-4 different versions (LFR, normal, heroic and mythic) of past raid gear, etc? All of those things are easily accessible to casual players. The argument that a challenge set should be rewarded to everyone regardless of effort is silly. It wouldn’t be much of a challenge if the only requirement was to log in, or simply smash buttons without knowing what you were doing.
There is no barrier to entry for the mage tower except character level. It is available to everyone.
For the record, if fights need to be tuned, I am all for that. I am not naïve to the fact that a significant portion of the folks complaining would still fail to beat the challenge of it was tuned.
How many of those award druid forms? Also challenging for who? I’ve read plenty of stories from people with various issues that are struggling with this. What you might consider easy could be nightmarish for someone else. A friend of mine walked in and did it in 3 pulls. It took me 120 because of my hands. Who put in more effort? Who deserves it more in that scenario? I just want people to think about stuff like this and have some empathy for their fellow players who might be struggling with things that make this infinitely harder than it should be.
Just want to edit to add. I’m not trying to attack you. I’m just a bit passionate about this.
The mage tower is really the only solo content that provides any sort of challenge, though. That is what makes it unique and why it would a shame for it to be nerfed significantly, especially so soon. Meanwhile there is tons of casual friendly cosmetic collection content available already. I get that druid forms are a bit of a unique circumstance when it comes to appearances, but I think the solution to that is to put energy into asking for more options from other sources rather than asking for this specific content to be nerfed.
You’re fine. You’re making counterpoints, not attacking me and I respect that.
You’re right about the Druid form, but shouldn’t that mean a tougher challenge? You’re not only getting armor, you’re getting an entirely new form. That also begs the question why all the other classes didn’t get something extra. I am not advocating for that but something to consider.
As for the disparity in pulls, you learned. Either your friend got lucky or he was a better player initially. The point is you persevered and learned from your mistakes, so you were rewarded. That is the entire crux of it being a test of your class mastery.
I have empathy for those who want to help themselves. I have yet to see a meaningful number of posts asking for advice or help. Every thread is someone screaming for a nerf. Why can’t they ask for advice? Is a race to the bottom for difficulty really what is best? You and I both know they cannot tune difficulty for each and every person, so where do we draw that line?
For the record, I have provided all the tips I used to any shaman or warlock asking for them. They are all out there already but I am happy to repeat them and not tell them to “go find it yourself.” I want people to succeed, but I want it to happen because they want it to.
That’s a great question. Where to draw the line. Honestly it probably should be geared towards the mean of the curve. I’m sure blizzard has the metrics and can see where the average player lies and that’s probably who this should be geared towards in my opinion.
My friend is in a top 20 guild. He’s probably what most would consider a 1%er and definitely leagues ahead of me in skill. He’s also 15 years younger and isn’t dealing with the autoimmune issues I am so he has those advantages as well. But even he’d admit I worked way harder towards it than he did.
As far as people asking for advice. I know when I was looking for help I went to the Druid discord and they were immensely helpful. I got lots of tips, tricks gearing ideas. There’s a lot of noise on the forums and things get lost really fast. So those might be some reasons why you’re not seeing people asking for help on the forums.