Should but then what about blood? That’s the problem it has to play equally across two specs so it can’t really fit on “optional” abilities.
As an unholy main, its a fun read ngl
DW absolutely does have chunky hits with Frost Strike. Doing about as much as a 2h Obliterate it just doesnt have a way to force both weapons to crit like it used to be able to. Frost Strike with the main hand critting is doing more damage than a KM Obliterate in DW.
Thanks to Obliterate. They are still competing with each other. Might be worth it in aoe, but its needs to do just as much or more as Obliterate to be worth using the runes on. Then you possibly waste KM procs in the meantime wasting potential damage. Just use Obliterate. Frostscythe has been dead since SL, thanks.
The counterpart would be Consumption. They almost function the same, cleave damage, 30 second cooldown, but then you get into the mud of blood shield and frostscythe resets and… just let Frostscythe die the miserable death it had in SL, stop trying to revive it.
It needs to be another 30s/45s cooldown ability like Consumption/Blooddrinker or even Bone Storm for BDK. RotA plays completely around AotD and FWF - where FWF is considered more optional in FDK’s kit and requires two talent points for it even.
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Not to be mean but if someone really thinks 30% more damage on an ability that’s hitting near 1mil~ on the high end only when all the RNG buffs align with all the spec’s debuffs and Pillar + max Whelps is a “chunky hit profile” then they’re playing the wrong spec and their feedback is entirely wasted because Frost (and to an extent DK) has never been about a sole “big chunky hit” outside of WoTLK (and possibly PvP) when the class was purposely left in an overtuned state.
And we had a “big chunky hit” style in Legion with FS and HB and people QQ’d endlessly because their preferred ability wasn’t the big hitter.
And you clearly don’t understand that Hero talents are completely self contained. Each tree gives anywhere from 20-25% on averages. Yes, Deathbringer is on the higher end of what it gives but there is 0 change they nerf DB and putting the damage into the base without also nerfing Rider, which very much doesn’t need a nerf.
Then that’s a personal opinion issue. 2H came back due to popular demand and it took precedence in both DF M+ and the later seasons of DF due to Fyralath. Dislike or no, it’s just as much a part of FDK’s identity as DW or BoS at this point. I like 2H and so do plenty of other people. We can also ramble on about how a third of this board hates BoS, another third hates DW and another third hates 2H forever.
Hero talents can also buff the base kit within it’s own hero tree. That’s what the PTR changes are doing, Frost Fever and Howling Blast is buffed since every DB now gets access to Wither Away (100% faster tick) and Bind in Darkness (30% more Howling Blast). RotA has access to a few of it’s own.
30% proc on extra Reaper’s Mark on Exterminate is power that can be transferred elsewhere without the RNG fussiness which is what FDK is already having gameplay loop issues with.
FYI, maybe tone down the condescending tone.
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As someone who hated BOS up until this xpac i am slowly transitioning into a BOS enjoyer with the omni frost build. It feels like obliteration but with a super go every 2 mins instead of the whole build being BOS or nothing.
And then there is me! Debatably the most N̸̡̫̖̝̹̟̬̯̫̋̽̄̒̂̋̾O̶̢͑Ŕ̸̨̧̛̟̼̘̗̱̣̟̔̆͋̂̽̾́̅̓̕͝M̴͚̘̮͓̲̯͇̲͎̻͚͇̾̐̓̽͝Ǻ̷͓̖̯̲̻̩L̸̡̛̜͉͍̪̗̟̗̞̜̟̒̀̏̀́͂̈́̕͜ Death Knight player here… or am I?
I don’t know. The lack of player agency over customizing your abilities is what deters me to take this game seriously sometimes.
Ah well.
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Shhhh, sh sh sh sh… stop making sense.
Frost Strike is critting close to 1m damage with its main hand if it crits. Rather have a way to force a full Frost Strike crit somehow but how to do that… idk. Probably wouldnt even be able to do it without a nerf somewhere.
2h came back because people harassed Holinka on twitter and they werent happy with just having the option back. Not to mention that you guys talked about the representation of Frost DK’s in basically all forms of content being low.
Because they think BoS is hurting Obliteration and thus 2h which it isnt.
Those are the same people that hate BoS.
Very few people have actually said they hate it. Ive never said I hate it. I dont like it because DW plays better though more procs and used to have higher damage than 2h before MotFW double dip nonsense. I tried it in cata and it was bad, tried it in wod and it was bad it just had bigger obliterates because 35% weapon damage increase and another 50% Obliterate damage increase.
People didnt like SL and DF Frost DK and if it was primarily 2h being the “best” in 2/3 of the content… then you could say that the majority of people dont like 2h and what it did to the spec.
Thats not the base kit though, that is the hero talents. Its still self contained even if there are talents within the hero spec that increases the damage of abilities. When you say reduce something and buff the base kit, that means take damage out of the hero spec and buff the base kit. That was what Van thought and I thought as well.
You give tone to the post that you want to give it. There was nothing condescending about it. You clearly didnt understand the hero talents, or you just didnt put your thoughts to words well enough to get your point across.
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I mean I get the sentiment, but as much as I complain about dw, frost is actually pretty fun right now. And actually I think BoS could actually use a buff… as far as I can tell no one is really playing BoS anymore? Or at least I haven’t heard much about it this xpac.
WHAT REALLY NEEDS A BUFF is rider of the apocalypse for frost. That spec is so damn cool, but just doesn’t compare in any situation I feel like. The idea I had was making frostwhelp summon 1 or 2 of the horsemen, but idk that might make it too powerful.
I was really hoping this xpac was going to lead to a rider for any aoe/cleave fight and deathbringer for any single target fight.
They are, a lot of people are actually.
Because people cant actually complain about it through saying BoS is the reason why Obliteration sucks. Thats what people were saying about it, that it hurt Obliteration (even though 0 explanation for this) and in hurting Obliteration it hurt 2h. People cant even attempt to claim that now because DW Obliteration + Shattering shows that BoS isnt detrimental to the spec at all.
It doesnt. An alternative spec is a DW rider spec that was doing more than the Shattering spec. The Shattering spec was fixed but you can still play the DW rider spec.
Most top logs are BoS, both for ST and AoE unfortunately.
Edit: According to WoWhead’s guide, BoS can shine in M+ if you play with a coordinated group that pulls in a way that favours this 2min window.
Therefore, if you are pugging I’m gonna suggest going pure oblit because a burst window each 45s is going to give you much more flexibility, specially now that players are still figuring out the most optimal routes that can change with nerfs in dungeons.
Anecdotally I’ve been doing well with Obliteration. With a good team the packs die super fast without Fortified affix and the PoF windows might get sketchy, but with Fortify you usually have it up for every pull, which is nice.
I suppose i havent been looking at the top logs much, and got fooled by the people i run into that complain about bos. But i guess people are always complaining about bos in some way. Good to hear its still a competitive option for those who like it
ah sheeiii here we go again
As I said, top logs run BoS because they are super coordinated teams working around the talent to squeeze as much juice out of it as possible.
To us lowly menials Oblit on a 45s cd has a lot more flexibility and can dish out respectable damage. And at the end of the day, play whichever you like best! Affinity for a build will almost always give better results.
BoS isnt like it was in DF, the BoS windows are balanced around much smaller windows. Instead of needing to get ~2m duration out of it which requires constant pulling, the duration is much much smaller, around the 30 second mark.
You dont have to be massively coordinated to get 30 seconds of BoS out.
All these DKs moaning and complaining at each other while Blizzard continues to nerf us again. We need to band together and fight the good fight against Blizzard’s obvious bias against DK being good.
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Doing pretty well in Riads and M+. #4 and #5 in the rankings, and in M+ depending on the key level, frost is top dog.
Blood San’layn is getting buffed, and Unholy in pvp is getting disease nerfs along with a Death Coil nerf. Any little balance pass and it always comes back to “DK IS DEAD, WHY DOES BLIZZARD HATE US SO!?!”
I hate breath but why ruin someone else’s fun and buff yours?