Impossible. private servers reeeeeeeeee
“On paper” is doing a lot of work there.
First of all, it’s just having one pet class that puts Battle Shout ahead. While a group with 3 pet classes would be rare, a single one isn’t.
Then you have the fact that:
-Battle Shout - 10 rage, Sunder - 15. 33% less rage cost.
-Battle Shout has infinite range as far as I can see. So long as you’re buffing people on the mob’s aggro table, it doesn’t matter where those people are, or where the mobs are. Sunder requires the mob be in melee and not behind you.
-Tab sunder requires that tabbing acts nicely and cycle through the mobs. Needless to say this is not always the case.
-You have to play games with macros to have Sunder not break CC. Battle Shout never breaks it.
-Battle Shout applies threat uniformly, rather than in spikes, so no one mob would ever be low and decide to go for the healer.
In short I’m pretty sure the reason people bothered to tab-sunder was that Battle Shout’s awesomeness hadn’t been fully realized. I guess Sunder buffs physical dps, so there’s that. And if you ARE using CC then Battle Shout is burning threat on the CC’ed mobs.
People shouldn’t mistake that I think focus fire/CC is BETTER. Of course it’s BETTER, I just don’t want mindless AoE to be VIABLE. If it is viable, then it is easier/faster, in which case focus fire/CC won’t happen. Though I guess rogues/hunters/warriors will still need some way to kill with no AoE’s… Lol…
I played a healer. The belief was that if there was wandering aggro, it was coming your way, since you had all the ambient threat from all the healing you were doing. In the world of Battle Shout spam, that seems clearly to no longer be the case.
I have no idea how it scales to lower levels of BS. I see people saying it didn’t work on the beta, but that was capped at 40.
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Battle shout doesn’t need to be nerfed/fixed, it works like every other threat generating ability (almost every ability in the game). It only generates threat when it buffs new players, the “battle-shout spam” thing is a bug on private servers and only briefly existed in retail wow.
Briefly as in it existed all the way until 2.0.1 you mean? Derp a derpistan
Seems like an easy “bug” to fix. Not something that takes 2 years to fix. Here’s what really happened. Blizzard changed their mind, called it a bug, and changed it in the BC patch.
Of course you knew that Bootzz, whatever is the unpopular thought, that’s what you’ll support because you’re a troll nerd. Go back to MGTOW.
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Did you know the game is at patch 8.x right now? if it existed from 1.0 to 2.0 that means that it has only existed for around 1/7th of the game’s lifespan, so yes it was brief.
You’ve got the last word. I’m not responding to you.
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I’m a troll? I don’t even know you unless you’re playing on a character i’ve never seen, i’ve never spoken to you so that seems like a weird accusation.
Even with 1 pet it’s not a huge advantage but yes, Battle Shout is generally better at AoE than SA tab targeting provided you can hit your entire group.
Though as far as allowing it to AoE dungeons down? If we take our group of 5 mobs:
Battle Shout does 82 threat per target assuming you’re in Defensive Stance with 5/5 Defiance and hitting 5 targets in your group. With a 1.5 second GCD that’s putting out 54 threat per second.
A Mage’s Blizzard at level 60 completely untalented with no spell damage does 149 DPS.
Plus even with Battle Shout Warriors are the tank with the worst AoE threat. If they can AoE zerg dungeons down then nerfing it wont do anything because both Paladins and Druids can do it better.
You’d need to rebalance 1/3 of the game’s classes, which isn’t happening.
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Well regardless of what we think, it seems to have been changed on the beta. Whether by accident or on purpose.
Exactly. You can’t just full on AoE packs of elites, Battle Shout spam or not, the casters will die horribly. Unless you wait a good while to start the AoE, and then you’re unnecessarily draining your healer’s mana and prolonging the fight and risking the tank dying.
The most efficient tactic is to focus fire one target at a time, and maybe mixing in some limited AoE in here and there, while being mindful not to break cc.
Nonelites, sure, but a tank spamming BS won’t hold aggro for long, but it’s okay because the mobs die quick. Doesn’t work for elites. Usually not worth the risk.
Bard Singer Characters in Blizzard games…
Working as intended
I am happier now than I started out being, because it seems like it’s going to take a few brains to use this to its full potential, so hopefully it won’t make 5 mans a joke. In particular if the mobs hit hard enough to where the tank doesn’t WANT 5 mobs banging on him then it’s all moot.
That being said, OK, I’m good with a theoretical scenario (good geeky fun if nothing else). Let’s say a 5-pull of these guys:
https:// wowwiki.fandom .com/wiki/Fleshflayer_Ghoul
Group is priest, warrior and 3 mages (so I don’t have to think about other class AoE abilities). Priest does nothing but heal. Mages do nothing but cast Blizzard.
The ghouls have 9000 HP, so each mage needs to do 3000 damage to kill them.
Suppose the mages each have 3/3 Frost Channeling and no spellpower gear and forgot to ever click any other talents. Then 3000 damage takes 20 seconds of Blizzard and causes 2100 threat.
To pull aggro, I think a ranged class had to be ahead by 30% (open to correction on that). So the tank has to generate 2100/1.3 = 1615 threat per mob. Given your numbers of 82 threat per battleshout, that’s 20 battleshouts or 30 seconds. And if the tank uses his various rage generation abilities, or has rage left from the previous battle, he can start that LONG before the mobs get to him since all that is required is that he is buffing people on the threat table.
You just killed 5 Strat ghouls with 3 untalented, naked mages in 30 seconds. Not bad. The question is if the tank took a dirt nap in that time. That I don’t know.
Layering is 10x more of an issue than this. Who cares about something that was actually in the game during Classic??? That’s the product we’re hoping for you know.
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Thor: “Does it, though?”
![:cactus:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/cactus.png?v=6" ":cactus:")
Well then, it’s a good thing we already have at least 100 threads on layering compared to 1 on this.
Oh that’s just with Battle Shout. There’s a few other things to point out:
- With Engineering, Dark Iron Bombs do 672 threat to all targets for Warriors and stuns them for 4 seconds.
- Force Reactive Disk does 35 threat to all targets every time you block.
- Stratholme Holy Water will do 747 threat to undead.
Better yet, use a Paladin:
- Consecration does 91 threat per second baseline.
- Holy Shield does more blocking for FRD(though only 24 threat per block from the shield) and adds 296 threat every time you block with Holy Shield.
- Ret Aura generates 38 threat every time they hit you
- BoSanc generates 66 threat every block.
- Since Stratholme Holy Water does holy damage, that generates ~950 threat for a Paladin.
Basically go Dark Iron Bomb->Consecration->Holy Shield and by the time the Consecration is over you’ll have generated around 1400 threat on all 5 mobs. On top of that unlike the Warrior, you’re dealing damage to do all your threat.
Like I said, if Battle Shout really ought to be the least of your concerns =P
Edit: Paladins also get Blessing of Salvation, making that 2100 threat become 1470 threat.
OK, yes, it can be trivialized if you want to burn Dark Iron on a few ghouls in Stratholme, lol. And having a shield that requires a bunch of Arcanite to make, the formula drops from Baron Geddon, and you have to be an engineer to even equip would be nice too. I’m OK with anyone who does those things being able to AoE a few ghouls.
The pally business is a different story. I have to admit that paladin tanking is one subject about which I know absolutely nothing and it would take a while to even look into. I guess one obvious issue is that after he’s done knocking down the ghouls, he’d still be a prot paladin when you’re fighting the boss, and supposedly they are bad at that?
Horde doesn’t have paladin tanking. Be glad paladin even has a prot tree. There are two tanks: Warrior as primary, druid as secondary.
I’m sure you’ve seen guides by now about what Druids can and can’t MT.
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Dark Iron Bombs just do the most damage. You can easily swap it out for something else that does a little bit less but doesn’t require Dark Iron to make.
Even regular Dense Dynamite will do ~600 threat instantly for a Warrior.
We’re likely to see a fair bit more Engineers this time around because more people understand just how incredibly powerful Engineering in Vanilla actually is.
Paladins make for great dungeon tanks in general because their biggest issue isn’t prevalent there. On long raid boss fights, they’ll eventually OOM themselves and their threat goes to next to nothing.
That’s not a concern in dungeons though, and they have no problems with dungeon bosses either.
For a Warrior you can also swap out the healer for a Paladin/Shaman to get another 25-30% threat reduction on your Mages, too.
While looking up the stats for Blizzard, I found the spell “Summon Blizzard”:
https:// classic.wowhead. com/spell=28561/summon-blizzard (remove spaces)
I’d say a lot of people would like to have this one… lol