While that’s true (Scarlett monastery grinding) those people were wearing the best gear in the game from grinding while capped at 30, and had fleshed out the most efficient strats possible, and all had maxed engineering, etc.
This won’t happen in live classic, or at least won’t be as efficient.
Seems like an exploit, especially when you take into account the pets.
Just use two tanks and don’t make silly mistakes - many of us are going to curb-stomp everything except Naxx anyway, no need to cheese a fun and hectic encounter.
In game mechanics don’t need changing if they’re original and working as they did in Vanilla…
Come back when your argument is regarding using different warrior mechanics from different VANILLA patches, then we can have a logical discussion.
I too used demo shout on the kiting adds on Razorgore… because demo > battle shout if you are doing your job properly and kiting enough mobs I usually had well over 15 mobs behind me. Also demo will hit all the mobs behind you and only does threat to them, where as battle shout will be split among all the mobs in the room and you will often be out of range of your party.
Using the numbers from http://web.archive.org/web/20061023002703/http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php
Threat modifiers from stances
Battle = .8
Defensive = 1.495(you are not a tank without defiance)
So we have
Thunder clap: 104 Threat per mob hit
Demo shout: 64 Threat per mob hit
Sunder Armor: 389 Threat
Revenge 5: 471 Threat
Revenge 6: 531 Threat
Battle shout: ~82 Threat per target buffed on mobs threat table split between all mobs that are aware of the warrior.
So for Aoe Threat you have 2 main options, battle shout + Demo Shout
which depending on how many people you buff and how many targets you are tanking would determine which is better.
b t d
9 740 12
8 658 11
7 576 9
6 493 8
5 411 7
b = Number of targets buffed by battle shout(targets in party + pets)
t = total threat generated before division
d = Number of enemeies hit by demo so demo is more threat than battle shout
What I find interesting is if this math holds then if you are tanking a single target, then even with just 5 targets so no pets then battle shout is more threat than sunder armor for less rage…
So essentially you would only sunder to keep up the debuff or if you wanted to maximize tank threat you would delegate a dps warrior to maintaining sunder.
also if you have 9 targets for battle shout then shield slam would have to do more than 740 damage to be better threat per rage than battle shout.
oh and before anyone asks at the bottom of the post…
Overwriting a buff doesnt affect the threat caused. E.g. Sunder Armor causes as much threat when there are 5 debuffs as none, and player buffs cause just as much threat if the player already had one up.
Below is fom Kenco’s Threat Guide, which I think most serious tanks in vanilla read back in the day. It was last updated July 27, 2006. Tells you right there exactly what it does…
Battle Shout generates 55 threat for each player that is buffed; up to 5 people in your party and their pets, as long as they are on the relevant mob’s threat list. For example if you buff a player that is out of combat, no threat is generated. Therefore in a tightly packed group, Battle Shout can rival Sunder Armor for threat, but as a buff the threat is split amongst all the mobs that are aware of you. On the other hand, Demoralizing Shout gives 43 threat to each affected mob. As long as there are 6 or more mobs affected, it will hold aggro as well or better than Sunder Armor.
I also remember using Demo Shout for Razorgore kiting. Battle Shout I think I vaguely remember being mentioned as a gimmick tactic for Nefarion. But I never did the Nef fight beyond 1-2 attempts. Our guild got a late start and got to Nef the week before TBC dropped.
I really don’t think it’s going to be that big of a deal. Just another tool to use in certain situations. If anyone thinks they’re going to just spam BS and AoE down packs of elites, they are going to end up with a bunch of dead mages and warlocks.
The most efficient and safest way to pull packs of dangerous elites that will 2-3 shot clothies is still going to be to mark, cc, and focus fire killing them one at a time, and that means tanking the normal way and focusing the majority of your threat on the the one being attacked while tab targeting to the others to keep them from running after the healers.
We haven’t seen the level 60 dungeons in Classic yet. I doubt that will be the case. The mobs get a lot more deadly in endgame instances, and thus the need to use cc and focus fire becomes more important.
Apparently if you do some googling people in the closed beta were complaining that battle shout isn’t working the way it did in 1.12. I.E it doesn’t give threat. Whether that’s a bug in the beta or something Blizzard intentionally changed, I don’t know.
And no that isn’t people misremembering, it isn’t LOL private servers. It’s a change.
Nah. Farming SM Cath at 30 won’t be a thing but I think people also had lofty expectations of how pulls work in Classic.
I believe some people think that in Classic if there’s a group of 5 mobs that 4 need to be CC’d and that’s how it was done because things were just so mind-blowingly difficult.
The reality is that you don’t need CC at all but good interrupts and focus fire just like in retail, shocking. I think at most I saw 3-4 sheeps pulls and most parties I did dungeons with didn’t even have viable CC to use - Ret Paladins, Rogues w/o Imp Sap, Hunters bad at traps or couldn’t FD/Trap at the time or Succubus Warlocks.
We blew through pretty much everything. Maybe not as quickly or efficiently as retail but there was still very little downtime and planning between pulls.
I don’t think dungeons from 40-60 would be much more difficult as long as proper gear is maintained.
It worked that way in Vanilla, so it should work that way in Classic. It doesn’t matter if it results in new strategies that weren’t common back in the day. Plenty of things we’re learning that weren’t common knowledge back in 2006.
Battle Shout also has some limitations, especially if you’re trying to do it in a dungeon where you don’t always have access to 4 pet classes. On top of that, the threat being divided equally among all targets means that it can’t keep threat against large packs of mobs. The threat starts diminishing too much, which is why Demo Shout spam becomes better.
It also doesn’t work if the buffed player is not on the target’s threat list, which means you can’t really use it to establish threat in dungeons. It works in raids because they forced the entire raid into combat to prevent out of combat rezzing.
That said AoEing down dungeons will probably be done by people with fully optimized groups at 60. I wouldn’t be surprised if it didn’t use a Warrior tank at all, though. Even if Battle/Demo Shout is working as it did in 1.12.
How did you keep the 4 mobs that weren’t being sundered by the warrior from killing your healer (maybe 3 if the warrior is good at tabbing)? I know how you do it in retail, spam your AoE threat.
If you aren’t stacking pet classes in your group, Battle Shout isn’t all that much more effective than tab targeting with Sunder Armour.
Any Warrior that isn’t terrible should be able to sunder multiple enemies.
In most cases it wasn’t more effective period. It was just a tool in your arsenal. I never felt like Battle Shout was some overpowered thing that was “too good” and needed to be fixed. But it looks like it was in the beta.
“Patch or it didn’t happen”. lol.
You can spam Battleshout, you can Thunderclap/demo shout on charge for initial threat. If five mobs are hitting you then you’re gonna have plenty of excess rage to spend on Cleave while tab-sundering since both abilities won’t interrupt each other.
Warriors can generate threat outside of Sunder and shouldn’t be a problem unless a Holy Priest/Holy Paladin bombs the tank with an 8k Crit Gheal/Divine Favored Holy Light.
And like I said, if you’re focus firing then you only need to generate significant threat on one-target while maintaining minimal threat on other mobs. Also, be aware, mobs don’t one-shot people. You can have people kite/stun/slow and face tank single mobs without any trouble.
Well I think there’s already videos of people using it in 1.12, not to mention the fact the patch notes in 2.0.1 mention nerfing it. Or maybe you’re talking about something else.
Nah. Just being cheeky about those that think that all changes were documented throughout Vanilla.
Oh okay. Funny thing is the only time I’ve ever played Vanilla as a warrior was on the Anvilmar server. That server opened June 2016 around the same time as 1.11 and I played through 1.12 when CRBGs opened up.
I’ve never even played a Warrior on a private server, yet people will probably correct me.
You didnt need pet classes for battleshout to work… im sure this is some private server garbage.
No, battleshout just worked better with pets to buff.
Not private server garbage it was used in vanilla hehe. “But I didn’t know about it so it’s from private servers!”
You didn’t need pet classes for it to work, it just became a lot more effective if you had it.
Battle Shout generated 55 threat per target it buffed. Pet classes meant extra targets to buff.
It’s just if you don’t have pet classes, then the total threat it generates is barely more effective on paper than tab targeting with Sunder Armour.
and only if it’s buffing all 5 party members. If you’re missing even 1 one of them, SA is more effective in the long run.