NEED system in LFR is Flawed

[Piston-arygos]

@Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow

It’s a problem when “what is fair to me” involves making other players sorry that they paid to play a game that seems to be mostly entitled grifters who are there for no purpose than to charge them hundreds of dollars for gear.

If you interpret “what’s fair for me and good for the game” as “the game should tax ungeared players and send the money directly to me, because I deserve their money”, that’s a problem, because you working to make the playerbase look like the game is a toxic elitist cesspool isn’t going to attract new players needed to replace those who leave.

A. Selling loot has nothing to do with ilvl, if anything it’s harder to do at high ilvls.
B. There’s a significant difference between an offer and a tax. Offers are optional.
C. Lfr is currently a horrible way to gear up. It’s quicker to do world content and then transition into m+.
D. Restrictions on need to prevent this would be equity, funneling resources from one subgroup to another based on a perceived need, without compensation to the group being funneled from.

[Redhotbunny-whisperwind]

Last 2 boss in this tier seems to be the killers. Healer’s on dispelling Fyrak and not getting orbs. 2nd last boss not stack together when you are rooted.

There are a few here and there issue but I have enough hp and self heal to heal myself back up most of the time.

Is really an easy fix. Allow people who have the higher track for teir set get the low track tier mogs so people like me don’t have to roll against who needs the gear. To get people into LFR say your ilvl above 475 when I do LFR and complete a wing you a random mog and a chance for a random mount like DOI raise when it first came out. That would get a lot of people with high gear to join and it won’t take away loot from low ilvl palyers since they will have the mogs already for lower tier.

[Caelin-boulderfist (Caelin)]

And pretty much every complaint about GL in pugs existed in PL, you just didn’t notice it.

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Bób-lothar

you need a item such as Shoulders, and roll NEED and other players with HIGHER item level Shoulders like Hero Roll NEED and win the roll, then you whisper them and they ignore you!!!

I’d ignore you, too.

This wasn’t any different in PL. Nothing is flawed. They need it for other reasons. Stop trying to gear through LFR. It’s counterintuitive.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow

If you interpret “what’s fair for me and good for the game” as “the game should tax ungeared players and send the money directly to me, because I deserve their money”, that’s a problem, because you working to make the playerbase look like the game is a toxic elitist cesspool isn’t going to attract new players needed to replace those who leave.

Genuinely, how many people even remotely think this way? Are there entire cartels running loot selling schemes in LFR that I’ve just been lucky enough to avoid?

There is a big difference between saying, “you shouldn’t be able to dictate your ideals onto me any more than I should be able to onto you” and “I think all PUG raid loot should become nothing but winning the lottery for the person rolling the highest with need.” I can recognize the former can result in some unsavory behaviors, like people being able to sell loot they win via need in raid without in any way thinking such a practice is acceptable. I just recognize that basically every decision that affects multiple groups of people will always feature a series of tradeoffs, never a perfect solution for all. There are positives to the systems that can be combined for selling loot in LFR, and burning down those positives does not seem to be a better solution across the board even if that would remove the rare downside of selling loot in LFR.

@Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow

One solution would be to put an ilvl cap and then tune it for the players who it used to be intended for before the design intent was turned into getting noobs to buy tokens so elitists would have gold to sell for real money.

So now all geared players have no way to get LFR transmogs until 4+ years later when those raids are soloable?

@Shocckington-tichondrius

It grays things out based on whether you have it or not, I can still roll on lower level items even thought I have a higher equivalent equipped. Yet if its something I don’t already jab or have equipped, then I can need roll on the item.

Yep, I understand the rules. But the person to whom I was responding is claiming some portion of the protections Blizzard claimed would be implemented were not.

@Nui-ursin

I run a lot of LFR. My experience is largely positive and I rarely see issues. In the past on some final bosses I have joined into a group that has 5 or more stacks of determination. Haven’t seen it a lot this expansion.

This will be heavily dependent on the raid fight mechanics, as well. Rashok last season would still wipe most LFR raids if he ever crossed the middle of the room. A single person not knowing where to take the puddles could be a wipe. Tanks not knowing to take him to the middle before 100 energy could be a wipe. Simply not enough DPS to kill him before 3 resets could be a wipe.

Any wing where all fights are largely WoW raid 101 for mechanics, not having a lot of raid knowledge or brute force gear probably won’t be a big deal. When you have heavy-context specific raid fights where not having the necessary knowledge can result in deaths even in LFR, lacking the brute force from overgeared players to make up for all the deaths can lead to wipes.

@Caelin-boulderfist

And pretty much every complaint about GL in pugs existed in PL, you just didn’t notice it.

A big problem is Blizzard enabling cross-realm gold trading, making it more possible to sell items out of LFR. Before, you could only sell to your cluster which was more limited. That change happened in Dragonflight so only occurred during GL. It shouldn’t be linked to GL in any way, and in fact PL would have made the problem far worse, but it seems a lot of people want to associate the two.

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Dwelknarr-lothar

A big problem is Blizzard enabling cross-realm gold trading, making it more possible to sell items out of LFR.

Yes, the cross-realm gold trading was a terrible idea to implement.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

I don’t have a fundamental problem with cross-realm gold trading outside of instances - if Blizzard will stubbornly refuse to admit they only need 10 servers instead of 200, making all the servers functionally equivalently to a giant mega server would effectively to the same thing. It’s the fact that we can trade gold in mostly raid though sometimes dungeons as well that is the main problem. I truly cannot think of a time when I would want to be able to trade gold in a raid that isn’t relating to something that happened in raid that I couldn’t just do in town after the raid if the use case were legit.

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Dwelknarr-lothar

I don’t have a fundamental problem with cross-realm gold trading outside of instances

I do. People can just meet up outside the raid to trade. They also screwed low pop realm BMAHs, as well. They made it even easier for those selling groups to function on multiple realms now.

[Gnasha-grobbulus]

@Bób-lothar

It really pisses me off …

• Everybody that participated in the kill is just as entitled to roll on items as you are.
• Stop inspecting other players to see if they “truly need” or “deserve” the item if you cannot emotionally handle it. THAT is the toxic behavior.
• Work on dealing with your personal greed/jealousy/envy problems and your life will improve dramatically.
• Stop worrying about what other people do.
• You won a roll or you didn’t, get over it.
• I think you are trolling
• EVERYBODY THAT PARTICIPATED IN THE KILL IS JUST AS ENTITLED TO ROLL ON ITEMS AS YOU ARE

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

Fair enough.

[Quenya-shadow-council (Quenya)]

Let’s be honest, the only real reason for LFR gear is transmog. You get the same gear, sometimes better, doing outdoor activates. And it’s faster.

[Gnasha-grobbulus]

@Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow

It’s a problem when “what is fair to me” involves making other players sorry that they paid to play a game that seems to be mostly entitled grifters who are there for no purpose than to charge them hundreds of dollars for gear.

This is just unhinged nonsense and doesn’t reflect the reality of the situation. Everybody has the same chance. At the end of the day, does it really matter if you lost to somebody with good gear vs. losing the same roll to somebody with bad gear? You won the roll or you didn’t. Grow up and deal with it.

There is a reason envy and greed are 2 of the “seven deadly sins”. Indulging in them will cause you to lose your grip on objective reality and become miserable, blow things out of proportion, and get your knickers all in a wad over losing a roll (that everybody who was there is just as entitled to) in a video game.

[Floweret-stormreaver]

I need it for transmog dawg

[Sendryn-sentinels]

@Quenya-shadow-council

You get the same gear, sometimes better, doing outdoor activates. And it’s faster.

[Quillemon-stormrage]

The “higher item level” is a rough term. That could mean they have worse stats. Or they could have a lower upgrade path like adventure vs veteran, but they have it ranked up. That just means the veteran will eventually be better. At the end you lost the roll, it sucks, but it’s not the end of the game. You have other difficulties, m+ and the vault. So you have more chances to get loot.

[Tikarü-area-52]

How DARE they win YOUR loot!!!

[Sarama-firetree]

@Opalunaiya-bleeding-hollow

the restrictions they told us were going to make it fair don’t seem to have been implemented.

Which ones in particular? I’ve yet to see anything they listed in the release not working.

[Kiofea-illidan]

@Bób-lothar

It really pisses me off when you are in LFR and you need a item such as Shoulders, and roll NEED and other players with HIGHER item level Shoulders like Hero Roll NEED and win the roll, then you whisper them and they ignore you!!! This system is flawed and needs adjustments!

It’s the same as Personal Loot, except in Group Loot you can’t roll Need if you have the exact same item at the same or higher item level and you could always choose to roll Greed, Transmogrification, or Pass instead whereas everyone was forced into rolling Need behind the scenes by the system under Personal Loot…

[Allyriae-feathermoon (Allyriae)]

There are really two problems with loot in LFR:

1.) Group loot in LFR is terrible. It is absolutely the wrong environment to foster team-building and good feelings about sharing loot. There are problems with LFR’s social dynamic, and group rolling just adds to this powder keg.

2.) The other issue is transmog. All of this would be solved if we earned all lowever-level tmogs for a given item. Earned your heroic or mythic set? Then you get your normal and LFR set. Done. It would incentivize higher-level play (which I realize not everyone can do, and that’s okay, but going back and farming lower difficulties for tmog is just busywork).

[Sarama-firetree]

@Redhotbunny-whisperwind

Last 2 boss in this tier seems to be the killers.

You must have terrible luck with groups, I don’t think I’ve seen 3 stacks on either one, even the first night.

@Dwelknarr-lothar

Are there entire cartels running loot selling schemes in LFR that I’ve just been lucky enough to avoid?

You’re not thinking big enough… the devs are mind controlling new players to buy tokens so they can buy loot off the geared toons in LFR. It’s so secret nobody even knows it’s happening or that they are being forced!

@Sendryn-sentinels

the cross-realm gold trading was a terrible idea to implement.

Eh, if people want to spend their money, let em. If people hate the practice enough, it shouldn’t be profitable anyway since nobody’s buying and they can keep kicking th sellers.