NEED system in LFR is Flawed

[Norezfou-moonrunner (Norezfou)]

I’m there for the transmog and the only way I’m getting it is to roll need. I dont care if you think you need it more.

[Resinger-area-52]

@Allyriae-feathermoon

I don’t think Blizzard wants to keep people doing LFR who substantially outgear it. If anything, having a lot of overgeared folks can detract from the experience of a group learning the fight. (Although, granted, learning a fight in LFR is far from the best experience.)

Yeah no, they learned from lfr nzoth, they have to keep geared people rotating into the mode for half of these groups to have any level of success.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Svell-nagrand

just join the club and need everything you can,

People don’t mind this with PL, so why is it a problem with GL?

[Cowvenent-area-52]

@Perd-thrall

@Cowvenent-area-52

@Perd-thrall

That way, Mythic raiders aren’t rolling need in LFR.

So should the system persist in allowing these people to roll need on these items based on the assertion that the “System works fine”?

Yes.

Then they will still roll Need.

[Svell-nagrand]

prob because with one the computer does the roll and its bad luck and with the other they can see that a person with better gear has intentionally rolled on it when they dont need too?

like i said the system is a shambles -esp when you can win an item you dont need vendor it and need on it again the next week ad infinitum , i also have won multiple pieces of the same gear (and i mean exactly the same, not with leech etc added on ) - this is with toons that can dual wield (even though the item in question is unique equip and i can only use one at a time)

[Sarama-firetree]

@Svell-nagrand

a person with better gear has intentionally rolled on it when they dont need too?

As soon as this person enters a PL raid they chose to roll need on everything they could get, regardless of need.

[Svell-nagrand]

you forgot to quote the rest of what i said which was that in one of them the option is taken out of the hands of the player and in the other its not so ppl can see it.

[Sarama-firetree]

It’s not out or their hands, they choosing in advance, and you don’t have to see it, you know by their presence that their rolling against you.

[Svell-nagrand]

… which is exactly what i said in my post above so i have no idea why you are quoting me

[Sarama-firetree]

You’re saying people think with PL that players aren’t rolling against them, the computer is. I’m saying that interpretation is wrong because a person is still making a choice, just as soon as they join.

Either way, the only thing anyone should be mad at (well if they have to be mad at something) is the roll, because either way a person is making a choice to roll against you, either in advance or at the boss.

[Piston-arygos]

@Svell-nagrand

prob because with one the computer does the roll and its bad luck and with the other they can see that a person with better gear has intentionally rolled on it when they dont need too?

In your opinion is there a difference between saying that players should be obligated to pass in GL and players should be obligated to trade in PL? If we get PL back those threads will immediately start again.

[Pulemy-windseeker]

Yea people tend to use the need button when they mean to use the greed button. And people who use the greed button click it when they really mean to pass on the item.

I don’t think players should be able to roll need on gear if it’s not an upgrade. I don’t see what harm it would cause.

[Elisande-earthfury]

Rolling has been in the game since classic stop crying

[Antiman-bloodhoof]

@Selura-area-52

the problem is Blizzard failed in regard how trans mog hunters can only win a piece if they roll need because need takes president over trans mog instead of giving them a separate roll for an appearance only version.

Which means those of us that can use the mog but not roll need lose out because for us to have a chance to get it everyone that can roll need needs to either also roll Tmog or pass. This throws arguments like “transmog is a need” and “everyone deserves a fair shot at the loot they helped the group get” into question.

@Selura-area-52

Had Blizzard taken this into account when adding trans mog as a choice, by making it a separate roll, a higher version gives all lower versions, or maybe give Alchemy armor dyes then these posts would go away and we as a group could get back to beating content.

Or even making Tmog a roll for a cosmetic version that the winner of the roll gets.

[Thunderçatz-zuljin (Thunderçatz)]

@Sarama-firetree

You’re saying people think with PL that players aren’t rolling against them, the computer is. I’m saying that interpretation is wrong because a person is still making a choice, just as soon as they join

That’s an inherently flawed statement to me. Players are choosing to roll need as soon as they join, but the forced option is to roll need by the system? That’s not a choice.

Regardless, I see PL and GL as different enough from that perspective of player rolls vs. system rolls. That’s just a fundamental difference people have and there is point in getting any of us to agree on the distinctions.

This however:

@Norezfou-moonrunner

I’m there for the transmog and the only way I’m getting it is to roll need. I dont care if you think you need it more.

Is a fundamental problem I think we can all agree on. Rolling “need” is always better than rolling “transmog” ,simply because you will never win pressing “transmog” since pressing “need” is weighted more and almost always someone will press it, either for gear upgrades or increasing their odds of winning.

There should be two rolls, at least in LFR, where “need” gets the item (and mog) and “transmog” gets the appearance. Have seen people posting this and it seems the most logical. Blizzard wants to keep the hamster wheel going so I doubt they will make having a higher ilvl appearance give lower ilvl ones, but I think it’s not as against their agenda to have a separate roll for transmog in addition to the need roll for the gear.

[Sarama-firetree]

@Thunderçatz-zuljin

simply because you will never win pressing “transmog”

I’ve won a couple actually. Pretty surprising.

[Xorno-icecrown]

Stop worrying about what someone else won. Personal loot was even worse. You generally didn’t know if it dropped for them or not, so your jealously stayed in check a bit better.

[Howlyzealot-moon-guard]

@Selura-area-52

I follow the Need before Greed etiquette that was established by the players from that era, and I will continue to follow that etiquette no matter how the times change.

the times have never changed. its always been a thing.
etiquite not enforced by punishment is merely a suggestion.

@Selura-area-52

my game play at all.

thats where we would differ. i want the completed set and not getting it will urk me. its the reason i would run lfr.

[Perd-thrall]

@Cowvenent-area-52

Then they will still roll Need.

With the change I proposed, looting mythic raid bosses would unlock the Heroic, Normal, and LFR versions of transmog as well. If they unlock the LFR transmog by killing mythic bosses, they won’t run LFR. If they’re not running LFR, they can’t roll need in LFR.

Looting a piece on any difficulty should unlock every appearance for the lower difficulties.

E.g., looting a piece on Heroic would unlock Normal and LFR as well.

[Cäpslöck-proudmoore]

If they actually had a problem with mythic raiders showing up in LFR and “taking their loot”, you’d think they should be in favor of any change that reduces the incentive for mythic raiders to show up in LFR to begin with.