Unable to find any footage or numbers out there comparing the two. Anyone happen to test both of these on the beta? Dont see much on the conduits either. Was hoping Infexious would have done a comparison.
Obviously Bonespike is king, But how much “Worse” is Slaughter really?
I ask because I like both covenants, But I more so like the armor / back of the Venthyr covenant. But I dont want to intentionally over gimp myself over cosmetics. Any comparison feed back would be greatly appreciated.
Nothing will really be confirmed until the numbers pass but for the most part the general consensus is that Bone Spike will be better due to it covering the main weaknesses rogues have by being useable at range.
So, currently if you don’t take into account the data mined rank 15 conduits, necrolords wins by a large margin. Bonespike is the only real choice sadly. Gives us a ranged bleed, super low energy cost and is great in mythic plus.
pvp it also is good for the forever bleed.
Slaughter is just bad. It does the same damage as ambush, but gives a poison that does the same damage as deadly. HOWEVER, sims are showing slaughter for sin and sub will be good st with the rank1 5 conduit.
Possibility of going necrolord and swapping to venthyr once’s 15 conduits are unlocked is a real
Possibility.
All it will take it is a nerf to conduits and soul binds for venthyr and necro pulls ahead easily.
People assume necro will be nerfed but if venthyr is nerfed it becomes necro or go home situation.
Agreed. I personally wish bone spike was the venthyr covenant ability because venthyr has the best mogs.
Anyone know if having multiple rogues would unlock different transmits for each
Yeah people are saying that venthyr has strong conduits and soul binds which I do no deny. But that assumes BlizZard doesn’t change anything about conduits or soul binds.
Necro with Bone Spike is that good.
One thing I think some people aren’t realizing is that bone spike isn’t so good just from a damage point of view.
It covers a big weakness rogues have to run out mechanics and ranged damage which is also why it’s so strong.
Unless I missed some change then, yes…it is crazy good from a damage point of view alone. It does 60% ap every 3 seconds. Rupture in comparison does 25% of AP * 6 over 24 seconds at 5 CP.
That’s 60% ap every 3 versus
150% ap over 24.
In 24 seconds…Bone spike is doing 8 ticks, for a total of 480% attack power value, while Rupture does a measly 150% total (before mastery). Even an improved Garrote only does 194% of AP over 18 seconds and in the same timeframe Bone Spike would do 360% ap damage.
Unless I’m missing something here Bone Spike could get nerfed by 50% and it would STILL be really strong for the reasons you state. Yet right now it’s just a flat out powerhouse for it’s damage alone (again unless I’m missing something huge and the tooltip ap values are wrong).
I was talking In the context of bone spike being nerfed it would still be better
Remains to be seen. If it get nerfed enough then we may actually have an interesting choice. I won’t even toss out numbers here but if you can essentially say
Option A shores up our weaknesses and Option B emphasizes our strengths…well now you have a good and interesting choice. I’d rather see something like this where bone spike, as you say, shores up our weaknesses whereas Slaughter and Sepsis get tuned and modified to truly compliment and emphasize our strengths. (Screw Kyrians they are ugly anyways).
We got Infexious to give it a go today on Sub, finally got to see it in action, and I was just as unimpressed as he was with it, was truly discouraging. He’s going to try some more tomorrow with it, we shall see.
Sadly at this point it appears Necrolord is the only way to go for me unless something is done with slaughter. Have no interest in Night Fae.
I don’t have beta but some napkin math seems like Slaughter could be very good once rank 15 conduits are out.
Sub only conduit called Deeper Daggers on max upgrade:
Eviscerate & Shadow vault increase your Shadow damage dealt by 150% for 5secs.
Theres a conduit to that ability called Slaughter Scars. On max level and if slaughter poison is active, it increases the damage of slaughter by 80% and critical chance by 80% it’s 40% for both if slaughter poison is not active. Now that is an Ambush with almost twice as much as damage with almost 100% crit chance.
This links really well with Subs Shadow Dance, that even got buffed to 8 sec duration that allows stealth abilities to be used, which means Slaughter can be used.
Now Sub rogues have a burst combo that looks something like this:
Pop Shadow Blades buff so all your damage does additional 50% damage as shadow.
Use eviscerate to place the 150% increased Shadow Dmg debuff for 5sec.
Use Shadow Dance and spam slaughter.
So remember, that with conduits our Slaughter is an Ambush that does close to twice as much damage as normal Ambush and has close to 100% crit chance.
Also that Slaughter attack does 50% additional damage as shadow damage, now that shadow damage is affected again by the 150% increased shadow dmg debuff.
If we add the value of the crit chance from Deep Daggers conduit, we now have an attack that is around 8 times stronger than a normal Ambush.
I can’t exactly test these things out but on paper it sounds pretty good, might be a good alternative if/when Necrolord gets nerfed 
You are 100% right. It crits for around 11k. Insane ST dmg
11k on people with 30k health pools? Could be spicy, probably still not as good as Necro but could be a viable alternative if you really love Castlevania or if Necro lads get nerfed into the ground
Problem is it replaces Shadowstrike in almost all cases. So talents like premed can’t really be used to their full potential. Same with some of the legendaries. I’m wondering if the poison alone would be worth. Only using it as an opener. /shrug
The sims will determine that in the end. Hard to tell with a month and a half to go!
If you went Venthyr as Sub I imagine you’d only use Shadowstrike if you need to actually utilize the teleport aspect…otherwise, Slaughter. Not too bad really.
Does Shadow Dance activate the 100% crit legendary? Or only “real” stealth?
Another side note…Sepsis does seem to be improved by Sin Mastery for damage. When nubkeks was showcasing the ability on Sin and then later Outlaw videos…the Sin version did quite a bit more. Sepsis may actually be decent at higher mastery levels for Sin as a Result.
Don’t forget, with the nightfae ability, coupled with the master assassin legendary, you can get 15 seconds of 100% crit chance on the opener and 10 seconds every two minutes or so after that. That amount of burst is insane.