4/6 Doesn’t look as nice as 4/4. Feel incomplete.
Maybe they all really are as dumb as Deevax says they are…
It’s one contributor, for sure. As in my skate park analogy, if there’s nothing to be gained by doing something hard, casual players won’t do it.
Mage tower and Zek’vir have proven it to be true. Certainly there were lots of complaints from people who wished they could do it for the mogs, but ultimately nothing about their progress was impeded by their inability to beat that content.
Putting loot in places that are hard to access doesn’t deter players who don’t deserve to be there from trying to get there. And it’s those interlopers that are causing all the heartache.
It’s proven by players jumping from Delves to M+ when they don’t want to, because they’re following the loot trail. The harder the trail, the worse the carnage.
The carnage is compounded tier over tier by the subtle increases to difficulty, like tank changes, stop changes, etc.
There are some major changes to design philosophy for M+ and Delves coming up, with reductions in tank busters and damage patterns, which I think are all well-reasoned and have the potential to take some sting out of the engagement requirements without dumpstering the difficulty.
The idea that with the right design that players will suddenly know how to play in my pick up group, is a fantasy.
Before loot being made easy: Bad players end up in my groups.
After loot is made easy: Bad players will end up in my groups.
You’re absolutely right, and so all the effort to try and protect loot, and the handful of sensitive types who hate to see it in the hands of the unwashed, does nothing but frustrate large portions of the community.
One more point: I think serious consideration should be given to making loot content-agnostic.
One of the biggest problems with the reward structure right now is the fact that it’s constantly at odds with itself. So much philosophy and systemic design effort goes into preventing one pillar from cannibalizing the others in the name of protecting players (mostly the upper echelons) from having to do each type of content that things weird.
You can’t award half a piece of armor from a boss, so instead of being able to reward based on the content defeated, you are rewarded based on the relative hierarchy of that content.
Rather than being able to reward hero track gear from Delves they had to limit it to Champion so that players wouldn’t complain about having too many things to do.
Please join me while I revel in the irony that many raiders don’t want other players getting loot without the appropriate amount of effort, but get up in arms when they are feel forced to exert effort because there is good loot form other sources. They’re just hypocritical half-wits by my assessment.
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With the changes coming in 11.1, they seem to be moving in a more egalitarian direction. Everyone will be able to get near gear cap if they put forth the time and effort. People who mythic raid and run high keys will get there faster and have a slightly higher cap but I don’t see a problem with them being compensated for doing incredibly inconvenient content.
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It’s not equal effort.
It’s trivial effort, and because it’s trivial, people are expected to suffer through it.
Oh, this is the foundation for badges of justice. So yes, you can.
They are nowhere near doing this?
Crest caps will be back, gear will be just as restrictive. Maybe a dinar toward mid season.
And the crest cap will eventually be removed like it always is. Thus the “time” component of “time and effort”. All the delvers need to do is spend the first half of the season gearing up enough to comfortably farm t10s. Once crests are uncapped you won’t have to worry about delvers invading your groups because keys below +10 will be irrelevant. Farming t10 delves for runed crests and converting to gilded will be at least as efficient as your average dps pugging m+8 when you factor in group formation time and failure rate. The only limit they’ll have on crafted myth gear will be sparks. They’ll cap out with an ilvl between Myth 4 and Myth 5.
That was actually the summation I failed to include.
If rewards were tokenized such that players could participate in whichever content they preferred, they wouldn’t need to farm content they don’t like and gear could just be gear.
Content could be graded based on difficulty and rewards could be portioned relative to the perceived effort required. Just like crests, where harder content rewards more.
One last thought on the whole affair. I don’t know much of anything. I don’t know what really is good design and what is bad. I am sure there are problems with my suggestions and possibly my thoughts are more harmful than anything I think I’m arguing against.
Ultimately, however, I think the game has strayed away from being something you log into, undertake a daring adventure and head home with loot, to some engagement treadmill that promises the potential of an upgrade if you just commit an amount of effort well beyond what 99% of the human population could probably justify for any hobby.
I consider myself a “have” and I feel like the “have nots” are getting a pretty raw deal and believe I’d be just as happy if others got it too.
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You should update yourself on the changes.
But how many games try to design for a player that doesn’t want to play?
Other games I do not really play, I do not really progress. (Except for idle ones which I had to purge from my computer because it was an unhealthy addiction of watching number go up.)
You have people that would only be happy if they had every cosmetic and max ilvl gear without doing anything for them. You can’t design for those people without making the game less appealing for pretty much everyone else.
Yea some pity crests, like 18 a week.
This is the fallacy disrupting your ability to understand the problem. It’s not that they don’t want to play, it’s that they kinda suck at it and with the level of difficulty that the game is locking loot behind they are becoming disillusioned.
You’re here questioning design choices in a game that has players sitting in Dornogal for hours trying to get into groups because the content difficulty has pitted players against each other in some sort of dystopian self-defeating system.
Remember, this is brought you to by guys who said " Tanks will take more damage overall, but shouldn’t die significantly more often." Only for tanks to repeatedly end up dirt napping to seven simultaneous white swings.
I have a very difficult time believing they know who they’re making the game for in the first place, let alone believing they could actually nail it for their target.
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And 12 runed from t10s, infinitely farmable. Given the competitiveness of pugging, a competent dps can easily complete three t10s in the amount of time it take to find a group and complete an m+8. Once crests are uncapped, delvers won’t have any problem myth crafting. All they need is patience.
Plunderstorm is participation for all, and how many complaints about that? It’s not isolated to difficulty. People will complain about anything, gear or cosmetics.
Tanks died before, and tanks still die now. The issue is tanking requires skill. I do not see tanks dying significantly more often.
Do you have your monitor turned on?
Or is your brain in neutral? I don’t know how you could live so sequestered from reality.
I do not see tanks dying significantly more.
Where do you see that happening?
I guess the sweeping changes to tank busters are just prompted by a lie a couple of youtubers got together to propagate.
That you would even say this with a straight face makes me believe you’re just trolling.
It’s significantly more, not that they die at all.
And tank buster changes are pity nerfs, much like -50% to cinder bolt in RLP. mid-way.
Or deletion of some mechanics in Azure vault.
Blizzard nerfs content so that the less skilled have an easier time, both true now, and then.
You do realize these complaints are coming from some of the best tanks in the game, right?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gHzDW5_KaU
1m:17s Yodatv: These are probably good changes that are probably going to result in tanks randomly flopping a lot less in future dungeons.
You are objectively the most clueless, most disingenuous toolbag in this entire forum.
Hopelessly clueless with an attitude totally unbefitting your slightly above average achievements.
You have the worst, most myopic takes and you probably wouldn’t recognize the truth if it punch you in the face and yelled “it’s just a prank, bro!”
PTR balancing means what? lol.
It’s not live, and Blizzard tests stuff.
Sometimes they revert, sometimes they go a different direction.
And stuff will STILL be nerfed again at some point in the season because of Blizzard’s balancing philosphy.
And people playing at the top end, will run into something that stops them, whether lack of tank hp, lack of healing, lack of dps.
So no, I do not see the issue.