I don’t know how Blizzard can design fights in such a way that 20 → 21 feels doable, but 21 is not easier by default.
The dps per player requirement can be tuned up I suppose, but that’s always set at a point below the theoretical contributions of a player.
When folks join my guild, I let them know up front we run all three tiers of a raid weekly. EVERYONE gets a chance to run any of the three tiers if they meet certain minimums that we set for each. It gives them something clear to work towards. If they meet those mins, we hike them up a tier and we work with them to train them on the mechanics. That can only be done for so long before your more skilled players start to buck & resent players that simply aren’t letting THEM progress forward.
So by allowing the flex raids in ALL tiers, I have given my guild raid leaders and their teams the ability to add more skilled players into the Mythic tier as those folks start to become better with their classes and the mechanics involved. My better raiders KNOW they are carrying folks through the learning process for a little while in their raids but that their GM will fix it by benching or downgrading players that aren’t getting those mechanics. It makes them more willing to suffer a little through training and in the end they are downing bosses regardless and getting access to the loot they desire. ITS A WIN/WIN.
The key here is HONESTY in recruitment, but also in yourself. Me… I am not good enough to raid Mythic — I am old and have Cystic Fibrosis, which can hinder me in many ways. As GM I’ve set that example that sitting myself out of my own raids. It gives my members an open forum to be very honest about their capabilities (or lack of) about themselves.
Flex raids make for BETTER guilds, not the opposite. The whole “it feels bad to bench” people is because you have failed to be honest with your members and don’t tell them what needs to be said and not provided a way for them to continue to improve. THAT is what builds “resentment”.
When mythic is set at 20, but guilds slim down to say 15 for a kill… What is the point of that when mythic needs 20 to begin with. (And likely, they aren’t just kicking those 5 out) it’s more of “unwilling to spend more time on a boss than needed.”)
And guilds who struggle with heroic maybe reach mythic in week 3-4, do this.
Every single raid does this already for normal and heroic. WDYM?
There isn’t some mythical (pun intended) difficulty grade for Mythics that is sooooo vastly different vs Heroic Flex or Normal Flex. It literally is a) additional mechanics to sort through, b) more boss HPs, and c) enrage timers to push DPS up.
Mythic forces 20. You do not get an edge for bringing only 19.
So only one group size is optimal.
You don’t spend multiple raid nights or multiple weeks on heroic bosses though.
At least not as a guild that also progresses mythic.
Wouldn’t CE be a better descriptor?
Have spent 3 nights on Raszageth before (heroic) and that guild ended 6/8.
How is this different from a static 20m roster where some are underperforming and you kick them completely out of the team in a hardcore raider scenario?
Also, again… keep the 20m lock (as it is today) until the close of HoF & HoF not a set # of guilds but rather a timed event of 4 weeks post raid launch. Boom… the hardcore guilds would not have to worry about it at all.
Not everyone is on a “immediately replace, never group with again” category.
It’s just some people take longer than others to learn certain fights. And, by benching those people, the kill would come faster.
Again… make it so that your static 20m only applies for the first 4 weeks (or maybe 6 weeks let’s say) post raid launch, and then it changes to flex Mythic.
For those in RWF or HoF yes, yes they are. Hence why I said don’t change it for the first 4 or 5 or 6 weeks.
That’s the ENTIRE point of my argument.
Your more robust players see the boss kills and loot they need and don’t go looking for another guild. In turn they are more apt to help others in the guild progress because they know after X # of attempts, they’ll reduce the roster and let them kill the boss & get loot.
Unless your guild is CE, there is more content to clear. So it’s still a huge waste of time just to drag the underperformers through. (If that were the case.)
In a 24~ man roster guild that just isn’t really how it works. People understand they won’t be in for every boss on prog.
HoF based on time is not a good change. HoF raiding isn’t / shouldn’t be about how many hours / nights a week you raid.
Isn’t that due to a raid size limitation? If it were flex, wouldn’t on some fights, you guild cuts down to say 15 or 18?
(15-30 limitation why not.)
Well yes, then we’d be benching even more people on average. At least when it’s consistent everyone knows what they’re in for.
Yea at some point in prog, I’d wager you’d bench 1-2 underperformers and just keep going.
(Like hundreds of pulls in.) And pulling in someone else with no experience seems like an unnecessary setback. Especially if downsizing isn’t a huge difficulty increase.
I just prefer an environment where everyone knows what to expect, blizzard included for that matter.
Nope, flex will change how guilds approach mechanics and having different raid sizes at mythic will change the fight difficulty. Mythic is essentially the competitive raid difficulty, no need to change the playing field. Having a 19 man vs 21 man alone can significantly make heal or dps checks impossible or way too easy.
Flex will never be a good solution to what is supposed to be a static difficulty with set rules. Removing lockout requirements solves nearly all the same problems, and potentially serves to get more players dipping their toes into mythic or being recruited to raiding guilds that need to flesh out or replenish rosters.
They could also remove the unique raid ID so people can pug mythic easier and guilds can fill in slots as needed.
At the very least you should be able to join kill attempts and not be saved. It’s genuinely ridiculous.
One of the most outdated things in this game atm is mythic raiding rules.
Removing the unique ID would promote split runs and loot funneling. The highest difficulty in the game should have rules that support the players actually doing it. Making rules to support pugs and dabbling guilds at the expense of the people the content is designed for is bad.