I never said the rewards were on par, just the difficulty of running either a 2 or T8 isn’t far enough a part to even consider but mimics show up here daily and say otherwise.
This was still the case in DF when tanks were literal unkillable gods and things were “fun”.
It’s not that tanks aren’t “fun” - it’s that people don’t want the responsibility that goes with tanking. Plain and simple.
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I tested this last week.
T11 is a magnitude easier than +8
T11 is on par with a +4 at most.
Tested it?
Findings and your credentials, please. I’m not trying to be unfair, I’m happy to be proven wrong, but statements like yours do need some sort of supporting evidence.
If you’ve developed a system to measure the difference in content, I’m sure we would all love to see your work. It would really help the community make more informed statements going forward.
The comment you responded to was about delves being over rewarding, and your response was about how a +2 key is roughly the same difficulty as a T8 delve. It’s just bad faith to pretend like the level of reward from the activity activity isn’t relevant to that discussion.
By your own admission a T8 delve has a similar difficulty as a +2, yet the T8 delve is faster to complete, offers a guaranteed drop at the end, the drop is a higher item level on the same upgrade track, and the vault reward is both higher item level and a higher upgrade track. There is no way to argue that the delve isn’t over rewarding relative to the M+ dungeon in this case.
Yup well stated.
Making tanking less fun was not the way to go.
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To be clear, I have zero issue with making M+ more rewarding. I’m not the type of player who thinks this game should be a 2nd job, by all means expand rewards and allow the replayability of alting be what keeps people logging in (if they want).
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You can’t be serious.
Except a few mechanics (e.g. exploding mushrooms and spores), you can stand in bad and never interrupt anything in a T11… and take coffee breaks if you wants… and still be successful.
+8 requires some basic coordination for mechanics. They are no where the same ‘difficulty’.
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D8 was being farmed before M+ or raids even opened in pre-season gear. You probably wouldn’t even survive the first set of unavoidable aoe in M+7 in pre-season gear. These who difficulties give equivalent rewards.
It’s true that a D+11 is similar in terms of difficulty to a M+4. Both in terms of how well you need to know your buttons and mechanics.
Serious about when someone says ‘no you’re wrong and my proof is I tested it’ so I ask for details?
You were given my attention and the opportunity to prove what you said you had evidence to support. Sorry that I don’t trust your judgement over my own just because you say so, I guess?
There is nothing particularly wrong with current M+. It is as dead as it has always been.
Nothing changed and nothing new.
To be fair, it’s the same proof as you saying
I did it and this is what I believe
This is about as close to anything relevant to difficulty as we’ll find
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dungeons were always a stepping stone to pvp or raiding. so they slapped a timer on it and now its end game mode? They opened a loot trough they can’t close because now casual and unskilled players can access the same loot co-ordinated and skilled raiders get. m+ shouldn’t give out so much loot and if it does it should be hard AF like every other end game.
You’re exactly correct, but I didn’t say I compared combat logs, timed mob deaths, etc. to develope a static result. I said when I do both forms of content, the effort it takes to complete them feels similar. Which was to combat the dozen+ ‘delves can’t be failed, require zero effort, etc.’ comments I’ve seen since S1 started.
The bottom line to what I’m saying is that +2’s and +8’s are pretty chill content, there’s no reason to build them up to prove a point. If people want to argue to have M+ rewards be brought more in line with delves then show me where to sign, we would be on the same side.
In fact, I think all forms of end game content should be equally farmable and rewarding. I don’t know why anyone would want to increase another person’s grind, I’m only concerned with my play experience.
While we’re at it, why do we have like 6 different types of gear levels and 4 or 5 different currencies? Just do hero and mythic gear and make mythic gear actually require effort to get if people need a difference in gear to exist as a showing of effort.
Alright, finally got KSH. That was painful.
Honestly why have gear at all. It just seems to make people angry when they don’t have it or when people have something they can’t get.
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Exactly.
Even I say Fun > Fair > Balanced.
Does anyone know how to look at players vs characters on raider-io?
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Fun for tanks in GD seems to mean make me immortal though.
I’ve seen comments of people being angry they can’t self sustain indefinitely in +10s.
Yes, M+ is trash and has been for quite some time. Like most of the time it’s been around. It’s meant to be elitist and raider OI just amplifies that sentiment.
This is a perfect showcase.
(OP asks)
So how do I do higher keys if the pugs are incompetent and have no patience? Is there a reason nobody completes the run even if its not timed?
Get the RaiderIO addon and create your own groups. This way you can invite players who have a good amount of runs cleared under their belt. Going based on score alone is likely to end in failure.
Having two applicants with similar score, but one of them has 7 keys timed when the other has 30 is a clear choice.
(Shows Raider IO Image)
This is what you will see with the addon.
Another thing you can do is look at the top timed run they cleared for the dungeon they are applying for. It doesn’t matter if they timed a +10 Dawnbreaker if you are trying to run a +10 Stonevault, but their best SV is a +4.
Make me immortal if I play correctly. I think being in charge of one’s own survival is the key, not necessarily how relatively difficult it is to get BE squashed. If I drop a consecrate and horsey out of it into a group of mobs, I should (rightly so) expert to go splat.
Like, DK hasn’t been good in forever, but it’s almost always referenced as one of the most fun tanks for that reason. Every time you die as a DK, you can point to a mistake you made (until you get to high keys, when synced melees can just delete you).