But you can easily pug in the 20s. You arent doing keys 10 higher.
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Correct. When you get to doing 25s/26s, things become a bit more clear. The real “learning” happens here where you learn real fast (WHILE DEPLETING THE KEY!). That’s the whole point of this post, is that if you’re constantly “learning” at 25s/26s, having to re-do your key so other people can learn, it takes an eternity to climb.
Without having proper skill/grouping in game, that makes the issue worse.
This is actually a brilliant idea, akin to arena tournament realms, which they never would add.
Yes, you’re looking at the front-page, which are a) paid professionals, or b) people playing this game together since 2004.
You and I, regardless of how skilled you are, will never, yes, NEVER, get an invite to play with them even if you tried.
There has to be an in-game designed solution to allow you to form those relationships.
MODERN wow has become more independent and temporal when it comes to doing any high end-game content. Mythic raid rosters are always revolving.
For a new player like me, I am sharing my experiences not having 20 years of history playing WoW with “friends”
Either you’re trolling or have never played high keys. At any given time, there are roughly a handful of keys above 25/26 in LFG.
This seems like a genius idea. Honestly, might even make a lot of these issues go away when people aren’t concerned about their keys getting BRICKED, or having to re-do the whole system on a tier they already beat. Great idea!
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What I’m doing isn’t the point though. Pugging was better in Legion, period.
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Correct. When you get to doing 25s/26s, things become a bit more clear. The real “learning” happens here where you learn real fast (WHILE DEPLETING THE KEY!). That’s the whole point of this post, is that if you’re constantly “learning” at 25s/26s, having to re-do your key so other people can learn, it takes an eternity to climb.
Without having proper skill/grouping in game, that makes the issue worse.
Sounds like your ELO should near zero, and will be grouping with people running +2s.
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I get what you are saying isnt the point. Because what you are saying is objectively wrong.
Pugging doesnt drop your potential by 10 keys. Or anything close.
You can claim it was better in Legion, I dont care. That doesnt mean its dead today when m+…right now…is easier than at any point in Legion.
As a resto shaman, it was much harder to pug in Legion.
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How was pugging better in Legion anyway? Get to Xavius, can’t even complete hahahh.
Cause… too much damage and boss liked to one shot. On tyrannical.
This is what Akston does, most of their responses are nothing but logical fallacies. You’re arguing with an extremely biased poster here, that spends way too much time on these forums.
The only contributions you have to the forums is saying how much m+ sucks, and it doesn’t appear that you do anything in the game itself.
Not even raid.
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My hiccup was that as a resto shaman I couldnt survive Legion m+ unless I found a sympathetic tank to trade me tank trinkets.
Pot, meet kettle.
I am actually amazed when any of your replies have anything to do with anything I said. You claim I argue in logical fallacies, yet you never point them out. You are more likely to go on a personal attack spree than anything.
And don’t pretend you arent an extremely biased poster.
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I couldn’t survive as a resto druid. Using bear form as a defensive feels so weird.
“I cant engage in conversation with people without personal attacks” take 2
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What I would genuinely like to know is why everyone feels like they’re so wronged, or that their personal accomplishments would improve if X was different in this game? Or that they’re entitled to exist in a fantasy world full of random, anonymous people and all of them are going to be NPC-levels of friendly and go out of their way to aid them, etc.?
The good and the bad are all part of the experience.
Hey, if the game gave me better teaammates I would be challenger in League of Legends.
If M+ solo queue gave me better teammates, I would be within title range.
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Yesterday I failed all my keys I attempted, today I had some of the best groups I’ve ever had.
The game is completely 100% RNG outside of premades and no one will give concession to this, not the players, not the devs, not anyone, I feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone.
Right, people already can’t stomach a detailed post, so let me go ahead and mathematically explain to a bunch of non technical, non engineer people who said algorithm would function. No thanks. But as I said before, just because a person might lack the domain knowledge and expertise, doesn’t mean it is impossible.
It’s quite trivial industry standard knowledge across many fields and domains, e.g. marketing, finance, games. Data pruning and processing has been around for centuries.
Right, and hence why we need a systemic change. It’s a very weak argument to say “this is how things have always been so accept it”
These are all things that are easily addressable to make a more enjoyable game for literally everyone playing. Regardless of if you’re doing +0 or +30.
This is the same argument that seems to primarily be a forum favorite. The entire topic discusses the reasons why that is not a solution, nor does it work in practice.
Yes, in THEORY that sounds great. Not everyone has played this game for 20+ years with guilds/friends/relationships they build over two decades. There are people like me who are new and wanting to get into it.
This is one of the key reasons why no new gamer in the market is like “yeah, let me pick up wow!!!”
They’re picking up other games that have a readily available matchmaking system, grouping, and doesn’t put the responsibility of putting together the pieces to eventually have a chance of playing the game they paid for.
Why do people here get so offended when asking to make grouping easier for individuals?
You go to a restaurant to eat what you ordered, not order something then be told you’re supposed to actually prepare and cook it yourself first, and then you can eat it.
Although exacerbated I definitely understand the sentiment. Hence why I would love Blizzard to allow grouping to be the main focus and make it easier for people to do so.
It’s almost a few hundred IO boost (at the top end) just having a solid, consistent, group to play with. Player skill has diminishing returns up to a certain point, and you really need a team.
Yup. As a specific class/role, pugging can be a nightmare. Having a system that allows the game designer to dictate the meta rather than the top end of hardcore players, makes it much more enjoyable for 99% of the people.
I want to push for something like this, the whole point of my post revolves around fixing some issues that enable people to play the game they pay for and progress their character, without being handicapped by the system itself.
Exactly. Hence why I wrote this post up to get some real change.
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Its not trivial… There needs to be an understanding of when and why talents are used in the first place. Its compounded by group make up, you may not need specific talents if something is already covered in your group or you handle it a different way. Computer models are not good at figuring this type of thing out even with AI. They need to be told to look for specific things.
What you have to remember is that the very best players are doing things differently all the time. When it works there is a slow trickle down to the moderate and low skilled players and this creates a meta. But the meta can and does change which you can’t account for and will end up punishing people who are attempting new things.
Your method would do nothing but further set the meta in stone as anyone playing outside of it is going to be punished and unable to advance.
Finally just putting this out there but these are extremely complicated differential equations your talking about, which are not trivial, most humans can not solve them and many are not solvable per say anyway. You can often get general approximations but if you miss a single variable it can/will throw off the entire data set.
Ok so it seems you don’t understand math at a fundamental level, which may explain the rest of your responses. I’ll keep it extremely basic as the real math is a great deal more complicated when looking at not armor stacking vs armor stacking as well as duplicate gear dropped when it can’t be used, when you exceed 5 of the same drops and stat weights etc, but its not needed to illustrate the point.
You are in a premade group there are 5 people with say 15 gear slots. That is 75 pieces of gear to fill. They can fill those slots in as little as 37.2 runs.
- Run 1 - 100% chance all gear is an upgrade for the group and a 40% chance you get it.
- Run 2 - 97.3% chance all gear will be usable by the group. However the duplicates can now be traded meaning you now have a 42.7% chance to get gear as long as you armor stack (which would also increase the group chance to 100% for the first 5 times a piece of gear drops for a specific slot.)
- Run 3 - 94.6% chance. Which means you now have a 45.4% chance of getting gear.
The more you run the higher the chances are that you will receive gear. And before you state the argument even if you are only using say 2 leather wearers those two will be able to trade armor at some point and rings, necks, cloaks, trinkets and weapons can still be traded, which increases the odds over solo players.
If you solo que you will be unlikely to trade as the people you are running with are on equal gear if they were not they would be running higher keys. There are cases where you will join guild runs or people in +18’s looking for that last piece of gear who are willing to trade anything else but this is rare.
- Run 1 - 40%
- Run 2 - 40%
- Run 3 - 40%
In this case you will always have a flat 40% chance.
Premade groups who consistently run together will always out gear a player who has solo qued the same amount of dungeons (should note here only after a certain amount of runs as on the first run they have the same chance.)
The rest of your post seems to stem from similar misunderstandings about math and programming. This isn’t a dig ,most people myself included find this stuff to be complicated.
They like to gatekeep, and they benefit from M+ being hard to get into, so they can sell carries. It is that simple. Look at the people defending M+ on this forum, same faces, same regurgitated comments, they want to keep the status quo because they’re making money from it.
Selling M+ carries is a huge business in WoW.
Having a system that allows the game designer to dictate the meta rather than the top end of hardcore players, makes it much more enjoyable for 99% of the people
So, what I’m hearing is nerf Augmentation evoker, havoc dh, disc priest, mistweaver, warlock, vengeance dh.
Game designers dictate the meta with class balance or there lack of.
I am sorry Moo, but I will repeat, just because YOU think it’s difficult/hard/non-trivial, doesn’t mean that it is. This argument is very flawed and devious to the nature of my discussion. There is no “AI” involved.
How?
There’s no reason to ad-hominem attack me, when all you do is say that something is “impossible” because YOU say so yourself.
This is really great and all, but as someone who gears alts very fast, your theoretical numbers do not align with the reality of how things work out.
After 8-10 runs of full leather stack on my alts, I get roughly 5-8 pieces of usable gear (not counting dupliates).
You laid out some very basic math, insulted my intelligence, yet neglected to see how flawed your basic statistical model is without really understanding what statistics are beyond the concept of a mathematical formulation.
I am not stupid, nor should I entertain these insults, especially when you seem to have an elementary understanding of one thing, no understanding of another thing, yet claim to be an expert providing flawed mathematics.
Bravo.
I think you’re right. I just want a more enjoyable game to play, but soon realized that boosts/carries/wow tokens are the lifeblood of the bottom line.
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