Check raider. io, last raid was 18k groups cleared N, 13k Hero, 1.6 Mythic.
Itâs actually mathematically impossible to gear out a raid team with tier before catalyst comes out. Also, raiders have to do M+ for all their other gear, since M+ gives more, better, and more reliable gear than raid does. Most progression raiders, during most of progression, will mostly be wearing M+ gear.
You would compare a skin from a raid in DF to another skin from a raid in DF, rather than a mount from another expansion.
The Razzy skin was pretty sought after and is still widely used today. Ugly is subjective.
Again, you would compare a skin from a raid in DF to another skin from a raid in DF. Itâs not very logical for you to want a reward to be made so exclusive because you personally like it.
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CE is only hard because of the barrier to entry. Half of AOTC can get CE if it werenât for fixed 20 man obliterating guild participation and instance lock obliterating pug participation.
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Also CE isnât the same depending of the week that youâre fighting X boss, the last raid has several nerf during its whole patch.
That is not inclusive and bad optics considering the raz version was available in all difficulties. I personally am glad they are pushing more players out of the game.
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But itâs still going to happen earlier and faster with raiding than any other activity (that has to rely on lottery Vault rolls and drip-fed Catalyst charges).
Raiders get their own source of tier as well as everyone elseâs sources. Open world players and unrated PvP players wonât even be able to catalyze all their pieces even in tier slots if itâs not the right ârankâ of gear.
I agree that itâs a shame that raiders feel pressured to do M+ for more pieces, more upgrading/crafting currency, and more Vault rolls. People should feel fine doing one pillar.
But if you make open world gear or M+ gear weaker in raids, you are going to punish the casual and mixed activity raiders who appreciate any means of earning more powerful gear.
And if devs went back to a model where raids were the only source of end-game PvE progression, I honestly think it would kill the game.
No. God all mighty no this is wrong. Mythic difficulty can absolutely be a nightmare to deal with. I theorize most AotC guilds couldnât handle getting to the later bosses
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Please quote the part where I said it would be easy.
Also said nothing about AOTC guilds. Better players from those guilds would PUG CE. Many guilds are carried by a few players.
But either way you wouldnât know because right now you canât even do it. Itâs blocked by design. If it does end up as no improvement, it is a natural skill cap, not a design cap.
this.
let the good players have some rewards too.
Maybe not most but well raider io has 13k 8/8 heroic and only 1.6k MythicâŠOnly 12.4% of the cores that cleared heroic also cleared 8/8 mythicâŠ87% drop from one difficulty to another.
No dude. Mythic Progression alone is a nightmare to deal with because of the need to have a consistent roster because some of the bosses require +100 wipes within the same group before it goes down. There are certain bosses as well that would require a heavy amount of preplanning to figure out whatâs required to go down.
The barrier of entry being 20 is one thing, but the difficulty of the later fights would obliterate most AotC players unless they found a consistent guild to play with
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âNoâ to what? As Iâve said, quote me saying itâs easy.
I reiterate, if it does end up having absolutely no improvement, then itâs a natural skill cap. Right now you canât even attempt this, itâs blocked by game design.
Refocus your arguments on whatâs important rather than being a contrarian.
It just needs some more flames billowing out.
Iâm not. You opened that statement saying
That statement alone is incorrect. Because youâre hard focusing on the fixed 20 man roster while ignoring the difficulty portion in your first statement. If you want to heel turn and add that the difficulty also plays a part then fine. But thatâs not consistent with your first statement where you stated ONLY because of the barrier to entry, spoke about the roster and then followed up by stating Half of AotC can get CE if it wasnât for the fixed 20 man.
You arenât being consistent in your argument
Are you implying that Raszageth is good looking? 
There have been a lot of mounts from raids that have been obtainable on every difficulty though. Well, mostly every difficulty. For those that have multiple difficulties,
Blue Drake (10 & 25 man EoE). Later on Azure Drake was added to the 10 man loot table.*
Onyxian Drake (10 & 25 man Onyxia)*
Mimirons head (timewalking & normal Ulduar)**
Drake of the South Winds (normal & heroic Throne of the Four Winds)
Flametalon of Alysrazor (timewalking, normal & heroic Firelands)
Experiment 2-B & Blazing Drake (normal & heroic Dragon Soul)
Astral Cloud Serpent (normal & heroic Moguâshan Vaults)
Son of Horridon & Clutch of Ji-Kun (normal & heroic Throne of Thunder)
Felblaze Infernal (normal, heroic & mythic Nighthold)
Abyss Worm (LFR, normal, heroic & mythic Tomb of Sargeras)
Antoran Charhound (LFR, normal, heroic & mythic Antorus, the Burning Throne)
G.M.O.D (LFR, normal, heroic & mythic Battle for Dazarâalor)
Sanctum Gloomcharger (LFR, normal, heroic & mythic Sanctum of Domination)
The Razageth manuscript is probably designed to be the Dragonriding equivalent to those.
*10 and 25 man modes back in Wrath were also designed to be separate difficulties. In fact some bosses have mechanics that are only present on 25 man. Such as Kelâthuzads mind control. Cata made it so that player size was no longer considered âdifferent difficultiesâ w.r.t loot drops moving forward. It is also why Mimirons head only dropped on 25 man 0 keepers and not 10 man 0 keepers. Likewise, Invincible only drop on 25 man heroic and not 10 man heroic. While mounts like the Lifebinders Drake would (heroic Dragon Soul).
**As mentioned above, Mimirons head only dropped from 25 man 0 keepers originally. But since becoming a timwalking raid, 10 and 25 man modes were merged into the one difficulty. The mount can also drop from Timewalking if you manage to do 0 keepers.
BWL - No Mount
TK - Ashes (1 Difficulty)
Ulduar - Mmirons head (all difficulties hardmode)
Firelands - 2 Mounts all difficulties
Throne - 2 Mounts all difficulties
BRF - Mythic only
Nighthold - Heroic and Mythic mount
Dazalor - 2 mounts, 1 all difficulties and 1 Mythic only
Sanctum - 2 Mounts, 1 all difficulties and 1 Mythic
Aberrus - 1 Customization, Mythic only
it looks like garbage scapped together hahaha
That was not what you replied to in your second comment. That is also not the point, because it was my subjective opinion.
Again, if it does end up having absolutely no improvement, then itâs a natural skill cap. Right now you canât even attempt this, itâs blocked by game design.
We can theorize pedantically about what the subjective definition of âhardâ is, and the exact percentage of AOTCs can obtain CE but that is entirely irrelevant, because they are only educated inferences at best.
To help you out, let me simplify my argument:
Arbitrary restrictions falsely and unnecessarily inflate the difficulty of CE through barriers to entry. Remove it.
If you have an argument to make, do it. Instead of focusing on the irrelevant.