I did a key on my lunch break today
we said “hello” and then at the end we said “ty everyone!” and “gg!”
so. freaking. toxic. I don’t know how society survives this.
2 Likes
Having to spend 3 nights a week getting gear from M+ is a lot bigger turn-off to raiding than the time spent in raid.
People WANT to spend time in raid, if they enjoy raiding.
What raiders DON’T want to do is have to spend the rest of their week doing boring 5-man dungeons, just to get the gear in order to raid.
You used to get the gear to raid, by raiding. Seasons were longer and people took their time and gradually progressed with their friends.
Now, the raids are overtuned for what drops (been that way since Nighthold) and are tuned assuming that everybody is ALREADY GEARED from M+, so if you don’t do M+, the raids are overtuned. So everybody has to do M+, just to get the gear in order to raid.
Since BfA, I’ve seen a ton of long-time friends of mine quit the game, and it’s all for the same reason: They do not have 6 nights a week to spend playing WoW. They enjoy doing 3, but they can’t justify 3 nights to raid, then another 3 nights gearing for raid in dungeons.
Blizzard should implement an iron curtain between M+ and raiding. Raid gear doesn’t work in M+, M+ gear doesn’t work in raids. Then tune the raids accordingly, leaving M+ out of the picture.
3 Likes
A fact that most M+ defenders will not admit.
That’s lasted a whole one day. But now you’re supporting blizzard again 
Some of the biggest drops in subs were post M+. Did you not see the leaked graph from the GDC. The only thing propping up subs was release of new expansions, and Classic and SOD. Most people still raid log because M+ gets super boring about 2-3 weeks into a new season.
You all keep saying M+ is popular, but why does participation just crater 3 weeks into a new season?
1 Like
so… yes. this.
we have a couple people who don’t do any m+ at all, or the bare minimum we require (one vault slot). those folks are usually 10 ilvls or more behind the people who do m+. that makes a big difference in their output.
this sucks for those of us who legitimately love to raid and love to m+. but I get why you went there.
this part they should be doing anyway, but don’t. be nice if they changed that.
and for the peanut gallery, we’re talking mythic raiding. not already trivial heroic raiding.
3 Likes
i had no interest in pvp in the first place. raiding is less appealing to me these days because of the time and frustration involved in it.
this has nothing to do with it. my lock is basically as geared as I need her to be (well past that point, really) and I’m still running keys. that’s because i enjoy it.
i would almost certainly have stopped playing for the most part, if not for m+. i’d have become one of the “sub for a month at the start of the expac, then maybe another month for some of the major patches” players.
1 Like
I think people who hate m+ struggle to grasp that some absolutely love it, and it’s why they play.
3 Likes
This is the worst idea in the history of ideas. Domain specific gear is how you kill parts of the game.
Nah, if you remove the rewards from those activities participation would nosedive. Just because you don’t like the content doesn’t make it objectively bad.
Mythic raid should just drop the same stuff as heroic. Get your myth track items and aspect crests from heroic. Get extra crests and extra shots at loot from mythic.
It solves every logistical problem.
i get that point of view. i really do! that was me for many years. i played only to raid and didn’t see the appeal of m+. guildies might drag me to a key or two if they needed a body, and i wasn’t terrible, but it wasn’t something i enjoyed or looked forward to doing again. but even in those days, i never wanted it eliminated or anything like that. it was just “this isn’t for me” – exactly like pvp.
2 Likes
M+ didn’t kill raiding; raiding was DOA.
Raiding has never been popular, and any encroachment of M+ to further drop those number simply shows how the raiding population was propped up by entrapping people who don’t want to be there, but didn’t have an alternative.
As someone who would prefer to do nothing but M+, I would fully support this. The only reason I’ve done any raiding in Dragon flight is to get trinkets and weapons.
I was a 2 day CE raider in BFA. Back then, you only had to do one +15 or whatever to get max weekly chest, so it wasn’t a big deal to me. Mythic+ was just like a fun distraction at that point. For me the game got really bad when I had to spend 8 hours a week doing mythic raid, then another 20 hours a week doing world quests and islands for heart of azeroth levels and horrific visions for random corrupted gear that could be better than anything from raid. I simply could not justify spending 20 hours a week doing stuff I hate in order to do the thing I like (raiding).
For me, doing mythic+ is an extremely preferable grind to world quests and islands. Blizzard has proven time and time again they design the game to make you play as much as possible regardless of whether you like the content or not. Raiders who do m+ are ahead just like raiders with 100 heart of azeroth and perfect corruptions were ahead. The people with the most time will always be the best in raid. Separating m+ and raid gear is probably the only way to alleviate this, but I think you will find that will only reduce raid participation.
1 Like
Every time there’s been an alternative, raiding takes a dip. It’s a logistical nightmare of forced false difficulty checks and convoluted dances with the additional social pressures of both a sports team and a corporate HR department.
Um, Classic raiding is huge. I never understood this take. Its like you guys never played WoW. Retail raiding is huge too
Come on, bud. You gotta be more subtle than that.
1 Like
As much as I dislike having to do M+ to Mythic raid, it’s still one of the best additions to the game.
To suggest having another pillar of content is bad for the game is delusional.
4 Likes
Here’s how you fix it.
Step 1: Make mythic like high keys. Cap rewards at heroic. Aspect crests and myth track gear drop from heroic raids and mythic raids.
Step 2: Bring back 10 man or flex mythic raiding. The worst part of mythic raiding is running it. Let people raid with their fiends.
Step 3 (Priority 0): design and play test all raid encounters without any addons on the stock UI.
1 Like
the addons lets other people see your score and completions. if other people can’t see your score, etc, the chances of getting invites goes down a LOT.