I have more wipes on Raz than I do untimed m+ runs for this season. Not that I do too many m+ runs, usually only up to 2 vault slots if that.
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Considering score, item level upgrade levels, and vault, and primal focus drops, heroic raiding would be comparable to +11-15 keys btw.
Sounds like youâre easily way past that pugging though.
well you can get it from M+ that way so iâm surprised they donât do it for raid.
16 is the break point for heroic VOTI. Thatâs why Iâm referencing heroic VOTI specifically, because at 16 you can get concentrated primal stones, which creates 418 gear, which is on par with end zone heroic VOTI.
There are no tier âdropsâ from mythic+ to pull them from for the vault.
They could change the way the raid vaults of course, who knows maybe they will in the future.
Not that raid vault is good for progression since half the time is spent extending and not even getting a vault at all.
No?
Heroic does not give concentrated primal focus. It is impossible to craft a 418 from heroic raiding. Max is 405. 418 is better than the first 4 mythic raid bosses.
Only mythic raid bosses drop concentrated primal focus.
16s give enough score for 411 upgrades in all slots, comparable to the 4-5slots of Brood/Raz loot depending on spec.
16s give 415 in the vault in any slot, which is again impossible to get a 415 from heroic raid except for the brood shield ring and Raz Hunter bow.
Thatâs why 11-15 its the comparable range.
idk we never did extend the lock out. after you get the bosses down their fairly easy. not to mention most people in our group got several M+ pieces making the point of extending pointless except to get a few rare drops that might be possible then skipping
16âs are the start of concentrated primal stones from M+. its supposed to be the equivalent of the start of Mythic raiding.
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Why should it be the pinnacle? We have three distinct forms of endgame. Raiding isnât âbetterâ or âmore importantâ than M+ or PvP.
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Heroic Rasz bow is 418. Heroic rasz non-bow is 411 - making the next breakpoint up 413, which comes from clearing higher than 16âs.
Glad to help!
Youâre seriously making your point with 1 rare drop usable by 2 out of the 38 specs in the game? That now heroic is 418 and higher than bosses 1-4 of mythic? Really?
418 crafting that is impossible to craft from the heroic raid because itâs mats donât drop there?
Super fair. I agree.
Hereâs my thought - I havenât seen Brewa whining about M+ in a while so that is strong evidence raid loot is probably too good relative to M+ this patch. Heâs the canary in the coal mine but in reverse - if heâs not whining there is danger.
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Lol.
Overall I think the balance is decent. Iâm concerned about Aspect crest farming and 421 crafted gear in season 2.
Dropping raid ID lockouts and making tier set drops be in addition to the normal 1 per 5 loot ratio I think would be decent changes.
I also think some way to get 3-5 slots of 424 from mythic+ at an appropriate level would be a good idea, but Iâm not sure how to achieve that and limit it to a few slots. Weapons only? Tier sets?
Itâs good enough. Not perfect, but good enough I can enjoy the game. Iâd prefer it to be better but ultimately I just need it to be good enough I donât constantly ponder whether I would time if I had raided like I often did in SL.
Yeah like I said Iâm not a fan. This is big sus.
Yeah I donât know. Just something. The idea that your best loot will come from depleting 16s is just yucky though.
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Itâs just you are wrong.
When Catalyst was introduced allowing players who dont raid to get full tier set without stepping to raid is what turned me off with Raiding. Only in Shadowlands onwards where you could get full tier set without doing Raids.
But later, I really have to accept this. But Raid has give more incentives. The Dinar on Shadowlands TAUGHT ME that the best WEAPON and TRINKETS of the game are in Raids in general.
Neltharax, the Raz bow is somehow a must for hunters. Well, I have to Raid to get them. And not just to Raid, I have to be well geared complete with decent weapon to kill Raz. I farmed Valor in M+ to max out my gun to ilevel 408, to kill Raz. And I did that. And fortunately, I won the Raz bow. I also did some Heroic VoTI and it got me Whispering Incarnate Icon trinket from my Vault⌠coming from a player who focus more on M+. Base on my more M+ and few raid experiences, the best Vault loots I got were from Raid.
You must be a noob to say this. You wont beat high M+ keys if itâs only a YOU. You would need other playerâs help to beat the challenges of high keys. Take note, high hp mobs/bosses, and hits hard plus affixes. Itâs a team effort, fyi.
Really? VoTI Raid is perfectly fine. Hoping next seasonâs Raid would also be fine while M+ players would get new sets of dungeon playground. I love Dungeons and Raiding on this era.
Raid is fine. M+ is fine. I just got KSM as Casual. Do you think I would stop from there? I would push more towards AoTC or KSH. The more gear I got from M+ and Raid are helping me progress faster than if itâs only just Raid gear.
Raiding needs to cut down on the logistics issues that FF14 solved. WoW should take notes as a the massive logistics to even get a raid going is massive.
That and balancing Raids around Top Raiders using Weakauras has hurt the Raiding scene massively.
M+ has hurt the entire game not just raiding.
They throw all their dev efforts into m+ the entire game is Centered around it. And for good reason. Five man scripted content is so easy to learn and find groups for. It also gives the most loot for least amount of effort. So itâs super popular. Itâs great for casuals who can attain high ilvl gear without having to get into raid scheduling and finding a team and learning all the scripted content.
Ion and co know what side the bread is buttered in!! Itâs super easy to jump into five man in game gold carry groups as well. So the economy is strong and it promotes huge token sales.
It def has a direct and indirect affect in raiding and PvP and other areas I may not be aware of. But population in raiding and PvP communities are relatively small compared to m+ due to previously stated reasoning.
Itâs just how it has unfolded.
I like blizz. I like wow. But ion has zero vision and we need new leadership. Itâs all about token sales and focusing on m+ content.
Just make all raiding rewards cosmetic its just a social event anyways. People that complain about how raiding needs to be the highest content for PVE are stuck in the 90s. Uncap ilevel rewards on mythic plus, make raiding cosmetic/storyline only. Problem solved.
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Mythic+ didnt hurt raiding, it helped people love their lives.
People are choosing to do what they want now, which isnt raiding, but doing mythic +.
Seems like raiding just died because Mythic + was the better option.
When given the choice, obviously. More people prefer to not raid in WoW if they can. They only raid because they are forced to for better gear.
Donât worry though, they are making Mythic + worthless too, so now you can go back to the problem you had before, which was âeveryone quit playingâ and you âcanât find enough players to fill the raidâ.
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Raiding has caused a huge loss in subs. Also, try to pick a better name next time.