Post on your toon that’s completing either mythic raid content or +20s if you want anyone to think you’re coming from a place of experience and not just complaining about content that’s too hard for you.
BiS trinkets for most classes (and in some cases weapons) come from the raid, so for anyone truly trying to max out a character, both pieces of content are critical.
Raiding rewards are on par with what they’ve always been. Just because mythic plus has caught up does not mean that everyone that doesn’t like it has a reason to cry. If you like raiding, there are still plenty of people doing it to group up with, lol.
It was worse than gear from the raid, but better than quested gear and gave players something to work towards.
It’s all relative to what players currently expect. BC was an improvement, Wrath was an “improvement” (I don’t really like Wrath heroics and I think what Blizzard is doing with Heroic+ in Classic is a step in the right direction), and Legion was an improvement. And those expansions saw growth.
I still think the whole premise of “lets neuter a part of the game tons of people enjoy to funnel these people in my favored activity” is flawed and would backfire spectalularly.
Yeah it honestly comes down to this ^^^… It’s always someone crying that they can’t completely maximize while only doing one piece of content (while posting from an alt so people don’t know that they probably barely do that content.
To be fair, there’s literally no reason to kill Terros in a pug for most people. The gear is trash, and it adds that gear to your potential weekly 2 boss raid vault when the first two bosses have pieces that are much better.
I literally take this warrior for guild mythic terros so that I don’t have to mess up my evoker’s loot table for my diurna ring and icon hopium(and because rally is nice and our warrior is taking a break)
Iconic and challenging are not necessarily mutually inclusive. All raids were essentially normal back then, and most current normal raids also have a few crisp and clear mechanics.
It’s more like… why bother? You beat 2 bosses and now you have the chance to get one of if not the best trinket currently in the game, you have a chance to get the best ring in the game, and you have a chance to loot 424. You have to beat 2 more bosses to get another Vault piece, and it goes from absolutely free and less than an hour of work to maybe having to spend some moderate amount of effort. Beating more bosses also dilutes your chance of getting eranog ring and icon, with the only upside being an extra shot at 424 tier. So have a very, very minor upside for more work. It’s not that it is too hard, it just likely isn’t worth the effort.
Exactly. There are three things people want. Eranog ring. Icon. And 424 tier. Beating more bosses doesn’t really help you with 2/3 of that. In fact, beating terros and not beating a 4th boss is literally counterproductive. Unless you KNOW you will get 2nd Vault, it’s actually a NEGATIVE to beat a 3rd boss.
Yes, I think it speaks quite clearly how bad a system design is when players actively work to avoid killing bosses because killing them hurts their progress.
You’d also expect a team full of people able to time such high keys could knock out 6/8 fairly quickly though and get 3 vault slots.
I mean…not at all. Mythic plus and raid are not the same kinds of skilled or the same pace. Some people don’t want to go through 40+ wipes to kill mythic bosses while others love it.
If 6/8 mythic were that easy, way more people would have it in their own guild groups let alone pugs.
It would also mean that raid tuning was horrific. I’m not sure why you’re so dead set on linking m+ with raid prog.
Stop making items like eranog ring and icon exist on early bosses. Those items are super, super dumb in the first place.
It is simply work. When the jackpot is at the start of the instance, why bother pushing so hard in the raid when the next big pay-off doesn’t happen until the 7th boss?
If you are an M+ player, your goal is to do the minimal amount of the raid as possible with maximum rewards and then go back to actually playing the game. Why waste another few hours in the raid for almost no gain? It’s just not worth it. See, for you you see the raid as somehow worthwhile, but for M+ players it’s a chore they’re doing to play the real game. Do the minimal required amount of chores, and then go back to playing the real game. There’s almost nothing M+ players want from later bosses other than maybe Boon, and its simply not worth pushing that deep for it. M+ players want to play the real game.
It’s like asking why raiders don’t farm 100s of keys for avoidance gear even though it would help their prog on a number of bosses to have stacked avoidance - people simply have limited amounts of time and want to prioritize their efforts and go for maximum time investment vs rewrad. Do your 8 vault keys, and even though that’s not the most you could gain, you do that because it’s the best return.
omg so many words, and so many are so wrong, there’s nothing to say, except no. Raids are as good as ever. “raid guilds struggling to maintain numbers” has been happening since vanilla. Your’e mad more people aren’t forced to raid or prefer mplus? Really feels like your taking your own issues and feelings and making them some universal truth.